Episode 3 - Turning Inward with Nia Neumann

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:01] LA: Welcome to the Positively Charged podcast. I'm a certified coach who's innately curious and loves discussing life, work, family, and everything in between. My guests and I are sharing how we step into our power and live a positively charged life. Let's dive in.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:00:22] LA: Nia Neumann.

[00:00:23] NN: Hello.

[00:00:25] LA: I am so excited that you're here on the pod.

[00:00:29] NN: I am so excited to be here. I’m looking forward to this for a while. I'm thrilled to be here with you. So excited that this podcast is happening in the first place. It's a pleasure.

[00:00:39] LA: Oh, thank you so much. And we just did an event together. We've been friends forever. And so this is really just us chatting.

[00:00:48] NN: Yeah.

[00:00:48] LA: I can feel a little bit of nervous energy in my body right now because we've hit record. We’re doing it. But at the same breath, I can't wait to introduce you to my listeners. Like I know they're going to love you. And I know they're going to just be so excited to hear everything that you do in your work and your life. And I can't wait to dive in with you.

[00:01:07] NN: Well, I'm honored to be here and share with you. So thanks for having me.

[00:01:09] LA: Yay! Awesome. Yes, you're so welcome. So do you want to just start off by telling us a bit about yourself? A bit about what you do? And why do you think I invited you here?

[00:01:19] NN: Great. I would be happy to. Well, so my name is Nia. As you've already introduced me, I am an art therapist and also a counseling therapist here in Calgary. So my training is specifically in art therapy. And that is kind of my wheelhouse. I love art therapy and creativity. But I also do kind of traditional, like, verbal counseling, too, that people are sort of used to. 

Yeah, I'll explain maybe a little bit about what art therapy is in a bit. But I am a creative person. I have known you forever, like you said. And I think that I'm here, I think you've invited me here because I think a lot of our values are aligned. I think the way we think about the world and think about relationships, and connections, and personal power and all of those things are very similar. And we've had a lot of conversations in the past just in our friendship about topics like this. And so I think it feels like a really special platform to be able to kind of share the way we see things with other people. That's kind of a special way to do it.

[00:02:27] LA: Definitely. Like, that's exactly why I wanted to start the pod is because I feel like we're having these fantastic conversations. And it's so unfortunate to not share those conversations with the world. And I also just love talking to you and love just like hearing your take on things and how it makes you feel less alone, that we're similar. It makes me feel like less of a crazy feeling person and more of just aligned. Yeah.

[00:03:00] NN: And I think to add to that, like, I think that, from my perspective, I've noticed that both of us have grown and evolved a lot in the past few years especially. And I think that the way that we've evolved is very similar and kind of has followed two separate paths. But the way that we've done things and the way that we've come into ourselves maybe a little bit has been kind of aligned. And so that's pretty cool to be able to share that experience together.

[00:03:25] LA: Yeah, definitely. Just for our listeners, I'll speak a little bit more to that. And then I have a couple of questions for you. And then maybe we can talk a little bit about our event. But on the context of us kind of evolving at a very – Like, you can't see me, but my hands, they’re doing this. It's like completely different paths and yet parallel. It's like we both worked corporate. And we both went back to school to do something completely different than what we're doing in corporate, and what we went back to school for.

So for you, your masters. For me, my coaching certification. What we went back to do kind of paved the new path for our careers. So now we're in our mid-30s in a different part of our career than we were in our mid-20s. That's for sure. And lots of transformation has happened between then and now. And we were partying it up and like having fun when we were younger. And that's what we're doing now. This is the new version of us partying it up, is plugging into the microphone and getting on the air. So Nia, I would love for you to share what is it when you're standing in your power? What does that look like to you?

[00:04:38] NN: That's a really good question. When I was thinking about this, I think I realized that it's changed a lot for me. I think even over the course of the past few years, my answer even a couple of years ago would have been very different. I think that finding my power and standing in my power would have been a lot more externally focused a few years ago where I would have felt like I really needed kind of validation from other people, from the things that I had accomplished, from the things I was doing. And now I'm really happy to say that standing in my power feels like being really in tune with myself, aware of what's happening for me inside, how I'm relating to the things around me, and really feeling like I'm authentically showing up in the places I need to show up in my life. So not to say that that's easy. It’s definitely been a struggle. But it is what feels powerful for me now.

[00:05:37] LA: What does that authenticity look like for you? What is being authentic and showing up?

[00:05:42] NN: I think that it's been a journey of realizing what actually feels authentic for me, like, who am I? What are my values? What's important to me? How do I want to grow and change? And then actually being able to show up in the world representing that, rather than feeling like I need to put on a different face outside, put on a different personality, put on whatever it might be kind of those protective things. Now, being authentic, is actually just being able to express what's going on for me.

And a lot of you know – It sounds kind of cliche, but one way that I kind of like to describe it as being able to take up space. And I think that was something. For me, that was a really a struggle for a long time, and kind of justifying that I'm allowed to be in the world, and I'm allowed to be here, and I'm allowed to be who I want to be and who I really am. And I think I'm finally getting closer to a point where I feel like I'm able to do that. 

[00:06:49] LA: Yeah. And I just heard you say authenticity means being truthful.

[00:06:56] NN: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:57] LA: And in all the ways that are uncomfortable too, like, asking for what you want, standing in your space, taking up space. And I don't know what our listeners are hearing from you. But truly, you're the type of person who really make space for everyone. And so there's something that you're saying around making space for yourself, too. That's really beautiful. Like, that's taking your superpower of making space for everyone, and making it part of what you do for yourself. And that's standing in your power.

[00:07:36] NN: I think that is totally true. And that is not an easy thing to do for me. It's taken a long time for me to even recognize that I need to do that for my own health. But I think that's probably something that a lot of people can relate to as well.

[00:07:49] LA: Totally. 

[00:07:49] NN: A lot of us tend to put other people first, especially people working in these kinds of professions that are people-focused. But I do think it's really important. And it's exciting to get closer to that for sure.

[00:08:00] LA: Yeah, definitely. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's a natural segue to hear more about our therapy, and like why you chose this path. We're so glad you did. Why did you do so?

[00:08:14] NN: Yeah, I'm glad I did, too. And it sometimes feels a little bit strange to realize that I'm doing it, like, we’re here. We’re here. We’re doing it. We made the changes that we needed to make, and we're here. Yeah, so art therapy is still a little bit misunderstood, I think, in a lot of ways. A way that I often like to describe it to people that's kind of a simple way to understand it is, for me, it feels like another language or another way of expressing what's happening for us internally in a way that is kind of bringing it out of ourselves and making it tangible.

So a lot of the time, we get caught up in language, we get caught up in trying to find words for things, we get caught up in our cognitive processing, our thoughts. And that's not how emotions are truly expressed. So when we're trying to find the words for our internal experiences and our emotions, sometimes it just doesn't work. So we either express it the wrong way, or we can't find the words to express it, especially when we're talking about hard things often. So essentially, we're bypassing that kind of cognitive processing, and we're going straight to our emotional brain. And we are bringing that out through images, through creativity, through different forms of expression that don't just require words. And there's a lot of ways that that can be beneficial for us with different types of clients, different types of people and experiences.

[00:09:45] LA: Yeah, for sure. I can see that. And yeah, just like in life, when you're meeting people, some people are more like audio processors. Some people are more visuals. Some people need to sit in silence in order to process their stuff and what's going on. And so I think what you might be saying is, it's just another way to hold up a mirror for a client that uses images that are self-created, like self-created images to describe what's going on for them and where they're going, and anything, anything that comes up for the client.

[00:10:18] NN: Anything that comes up, that's right. And I will say, too, because listening to this might be the first time some people sort of experience are exposed to that. But yeah, in art therapy, like you said, there's never any expectation. There's never any judgement of what somebody creates. We're truly looking at like whatever comes up in that moment in that day is what's right. We're not about making good art. We're not making about making perfect things. We're really just looking at kind of the process of making it the process of being creative, of using art supplies in whatever format we decide to do. And then kind of just being curious about what we've made and what it means for us. 

So there's no pressure. Art therapists, for the most part, aren't interpreting or analyzing. It's really just about what's coming up, or at least that's the way I work, is what's coming up. And how can we use this as another way of understanding what's happening for you?

[00:11:15] LA: What does a typical session look like? Like what do clients do?

[00:11:20] NN: It's kind of all over the map.

[00:11:22] LA: Yeah, I'm nodding along. Yes.

[00:11:23] NN: I know. Everyone’s nodding. Yup. I think you have a really similar way of working, Linds, that I work in what's called a very client-centered way. So all therapists are different, of course, have different approaches. But what's really important for me is that I'm meeting the client where they need to be that day. So the space is space for them, it's time for them. And we use it in the way that makes the most sense for them in that moment. So this looks different for different people. Some people prefer more talking. Some people prefer to literally just have something to do with their hands while they're talking. So it might be painting, it might be coloring, it might be just like squeezing clay in their hands, because sometimes just having that sort of third element allows us to open up a little bit more and maybe verbalize some stuff that's tough.

Some people, on the other hand, maybe we'll be talking about something. And we sort of grab onto a concept that might be better explored, not through words. So maybe there's some color, or shape, or an image, or a symbol or something that comes up about that topic. So we'll kind of pause and we'll redirect into making art. And then we will maybe even spend like 20 or 25 minutes just creating in silence, or maybe we turn some music on. And then we'll come back together and discuss and explore what's come up and what it might mean. So it really depends on the person and what feels best for them. But we can kind of engage in a combination of all of those formats.

[00:12:54] LA: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds so awesome. Like I would love you to therapize me. I know you can't. But I don't want you to. And can you tell us like how this impacts you? Like, what about this career choice creates kind of that alignment that you're looking for in your career?

[00:13:14] NN: I think that it aligns in a few ways. I think I've always had sort of the personality bent to be a bit of a listener and a bit of a supporter. So I've always kind of been oriented like that. But I now have the training to be able to support in a way that hopefully helps and can actually handle some tougher things that I think I just noticed that a lot of – Even just anecdotally in my social groups and all of that, and just in the world around us, like a lot of people don't have someone to go to.

And so I think being able to kind of use that sort of maybe a bit of a natural skill in a way that's actually helpful, and contained, and supported, and has a framework feels good for me. And honestly, the reason why I sort of got into art therapy in the first place was I often made art myself. Like my background is kind of in art, too, in visual arts. After kind of a period of time, I started just really dabbling in like playing with art supplies.

And I remember like a couple of nights when maybe I was going through something tough and just like having a canvas on the floor, having some music on. Like I'll never forget this, because it was so changing for me. But just having some music on, painting on the floor on this canvas, just like really thick textural, like just going for it, and just like feeling super drawn to getting my hands in there. And like I ended up starting painting with my hands. And like really just like playing with the supplies. And it was like time disappeared. And I felt so different after that experience. And I still have that painting, actually, which is kind of cool for me.

And I realized in that moment that there's something to this. And if it was me that had experienced this kind of transformational thing, it must be possible for other people as well. So that's kind of what led me down this journey of discovering that art therapy was even a thing that existed. And here we are today.

[00:15:28] LA: And here we are today.

[00:15:29] NN: And I still have the same firm belief that creativity has a transformational power.

[00:15:33] LA: Absolutely. Like, what I'm sensing is that you hold space for people to create, play, let down their guard of what societally we're pressured to be, which is like straight laced. And even the work that I do as a coach, like a lot of my work is rooted in action, rooted in moving forward. And even that has a little bit of a toxic kind of vibe where it's like I love coaching and try not to be toxic coach. But there's this vibe of like doing, doing, doing and we don't play, we don't stop. And we've bonded over this before. Like, I love art as well. And art and expression is so important to me. And I can remember some similar times where I'm just like the only thing that feels right is to get the brushes out and get the paint out and just like giver, and whatever happens happens.

And giving that gift to people is such a beautiful – Like it's like a transfer of energy, that is just not normally felt. Like we don't hold space for people to be creative and play the same way that we do for a child. Or I shouldn't say people. We do it for children. We don't do it for adults. And I know you work with children and adults. And I'm sure both of them, both of those groups benefit greatly from this. And I can imagine that children are probably better at it.

[00:16:58] NN: It comes a little easier. Yes.

[00:17:01] LA: Yeah, it comes a little easier maybe is the better way to put it.

[00:17:02] NN: You’re right, Linds. Like I think that we don't – One thing I've realized over the past few years is that we – Well, especially during pandemic times, right? Like, we just haven't really given space to explore and to be playful. And playfulness brings vitality into our life. And vitality and aliveness is I think something that a lot of us feel like we've been missing.  

[00:17:28] LA: Oh, yeah.  

[00:17:28] NN: And it's something that we all really need. So just allowing space for people to show up to be who they need to be in that time together and to have an outlet for some expression and play with no expectation is, I think, really, really important.

[00:17:47] LA: Yeah, not needing there to be an output.

[00:17:50] NN: Right.

[00:17:50] LA: I remember the first time that I took my daughter to like an explorative art class. And it was truly like no end result. Like you don't take home an art piece. And I didn't know that at the moment. But when I got there, and I got into it with her, it was just like, “What is missing in my life? I need this.” I need like, yeah, a completely, like, free flowing exploratory. Yeah, like no end result that is judged good or bad. Like there's this – And that is a freedom that you give to your clients of not being labeled good or bad when it comes to what their output is. Like most things that we output in our life are judged. And it's just the way our brains work. It's just the way that the human brain assesses knowledge is by judging it against something else. It's like this phone's better than the old – Or better than the old phone. And the next phone will be better than this phone. And really, like that's just a cognitive function that we naturally do, where what you're doing is like taking that cloak off and saying there's no judgment. There's no comparing. There's no output versus input, which I think is just like that's a gift people can give to themselves.

I kind of say that with coaching, too. Like there's this kind of – The gift is that you're in a judgment free zone that you don't get to go in very often. Just based on our society or Western culture, is just not conducive to being in that judgment free zone. Whereas with an art therapist, with a coach, you can kind of get there. And I just love the way that you describe that and doing that with your clients. They must just like absolutely love it and be so grateful for that.

[00:19:37] NN: Yeah, I hope so. Definitely, I feel it too. Like you said, that transfer of energy. Like there's definitely – We learn from each other and we kind of grow off of each other too. And you've probably experienced that as a coach as well.

[00:19:51] LA: Absolutely. I say my clients teach me so much just from how they show up.

[00:19:56] NN: Yes. And it's play. And also, like I'll add, that there's also elements of like safe risk taking too. Like you can take creative risks in a therapy or a coaching setting. You can try things out. You can try things on. You can see what fits and what feels good for you. And it allows us actually to kind of expand our ability to solve problems, to find creative solutions to problems, which benefits us not only in our personal lives, but our professional lives and in every capacity. So there's so much opportunity for exploration. I think, in both the therapy world and kind of the coaching world, it’s an interesting similarity

[00:20:34] LA: Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting similarity to try stuff on. And just something we don't do as adults as readily. There's a bit of an assumption that it should already fit.

[00:20:46] NN: Yes, or that we already know.

[00:20:47] LA: Yeah, we should already know. But like, newsflash, we don't know anything, or I don't. So, yeah.

[00:20:54] NN: None of us really do.

[00:20:54] LA: None of us really know anything, which is awesome. So, like, you're talking about coaching and art therapy. So, obviously, I'm so curious as to what it was like for you to partner with me, an art therapist and a coach, similar vocations, but very different. How was it to partner and do turning inward? What was that like for you?

[00:21:18] NN: I think it was – I knew it was going to be awesome. Because like I said earlier, I think that a lot of the ways that we work and in the ways that we approach dealing with people and things like that very similarly. So I knew that we were aligned in the way we kind of wanted to go. And there are a lot of similarities. There are some major differences, of course, between therapy and coaching, and a lot of similarities as well. I think it was a really eye-opening experience for me. There were surprises. There were things I expected. I think that it was a good – Well, our personalities kind of go together, pretty naturally anyway.

[00:21:57] LA: We’re yin and yang.

[00:21:57] NN: We’re yin and yang, exactly. So that was definitely a thing that made it pretty easy. But I think that we were able to kind of sort of use both of our different skill sets in ways that complemented each other, and hopefully helped participants to kind of maybe think creatively about things they're going through or what they want next. So it was interesting to think, because from the coaching standpoint, we're kind of talking about – We've sort of talked about this, Linds. Like, coaching, we're kind of talking a little bit about action. And like what can we do? What's going to come next? What's the action we're going to take to move forward here? And then maybe in the therapy side, or the therapeutic art side, we're looking at, like, what are we feeling here? Like what's coming up right now? What needs to come out of ourselves and be put onto this canvas that we're creating? And how can we kind of align those two things? How can we take action out of what we're noticing and becoming more aware about? Maybe that’s the best way to –

[00:23:01] LA: Yeah, I love how you just describe that, because I think what the listeners might be wondering is what's the difference between art therapy and coaching? And I kind of heard you say, like, I think they're very similar in a lot of ways. Therapeutic arts and coaching both have a similar structure, where it's like client-lead. We're really looking at illuminating what's important for our client. There's a judgment free zone. All those things are very similar.

And I think with coaching, I know for me, I kind of hang my hat on that action piece of that is a huge part of the coaching arrangement is taking all those great conversations and doing something with it, and having an outcome an end result that kind of speaks to the work that you did. And I'm hearing you say that there's more about you're hanging your hat on the creative process. So that's, I think, the big difference is. Do you agree? Or what would you add to that?

[00:23:58] NN: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think, often in therapy, we do create action, or we kind of build intention around action. But it's not necessarily focused on that. Like you said, we're not hinged on that. We're more about kind of looking inward, turning inward.

[00:24:14] LA: Turning inward. Yes.

[00:24:15] NN: [inaudible 00:24:15] both of us. And really finding out what's happening and building self-awareness about what's happening inside. Because as soon as we're able to recognize what's happening, we can start developing change and start breaking patterns, and things like that. So we're not hinging on action and external output necessarily, maybe a little less than coaching. But it can turn into that.

And I think that was really cool interplay of both fields, is that we can kind of build on that self-awareness that we develop through the journaling and through the art making, which I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit. And then moving forward and figuring out what the action is that we're going to take. So that's kind of where they marry.

[00:24:58] LA: I totally agree. I think that's where they kind marry. And I think, also, the difference between – Or what I feel called to say is the difference between our vocations is kind of style. Like, where coaching is – I don't know, like, there's a conventional understanding that coaching is like more gregarious, even though holding space. It's like there's a certain expertise that's being brought to the table that's like business or like that kind of – Even if it's just life coaching, I'm using air quotes, but life coaching or anything, but there's a business orientation to it, where what I love about seeing my therapist and going to therapy myself is that it's really the person with therapy. And with coaching, it's more of a blend. There's a blend of the person as well as the circumstances that the person is in. And of course, you're going to talk about the circumstances therein as well. But I don't know. Like there's a little bit of just a style difference a little bit there.

And I also want to say, every therapist is different. Every coach is different. And there's probably more similarities than differences between our vocations, which I think is really why it works. And like, just to your point, like we haven't really talked about the event yet. And maybe now's a good time to do that. So if you're new to me and you're coming – You're just randomly listening to this podcast, and you don't know what turning inward is. It's an art therapy and coaching collaboration that Nia and I developed together, where we hold space for participants in-person to really turn inward and look towards themselves to figure out what can make their lives more aligned, stand in their power, etc., etc.

So our purpose of these events is to provide expert guidance, while also holding space to be creative, be free flowing, be self-directed for our participants. So it was a combination of meditation, journaling, art making, and action planning, really. And we took participants through that process. We had great food and wine, and just had a fantastic evening. And that was turning inwards. That was just on February 10th. So today, we're recording, it's February 20th.

[00:27:20] NN: 10 days.

[00:27:20] LA: 10 days ago. I'm still buzzing. I’m still buzzing, girl. Yeah, I loved it. It was totally amazing. I loved the event. I thought it was everything I wanted it to be, from our perspective, from holding the space. And I said this on my first episode of the podcast, but one of my core values of my business is accessibility. And that's how we perceived our event to be, is a more accessible price point to get access to our services. So we've talked about this. Maybe this is another podcast episode at some point. But we've talked about the fact that the people who might need access to our services maybe can't for many reasons, but especially financially. We're not cheap, and for good reason. We add a lot of value to our clients and what they do.

And this was a great opportunity to kind of have a lower price point option and a fun night out, which is we're excited to hold space for people to just have a little bit of fun, especially after the pandemic and all of this time that we've been stuck at home.

And I remember when we were talking about making the event, we're like, “Whoa! In-person? Whoa! Is that even possible? Is it going to happen? Like, how are we going to do this?” And luckily, no mandates came down that ruined our in-person events. So that was good.

[00:28:42] NN: It was great.

[00:28:42] LA: It was so great. So I'd love to just hear from your perspective. What was the event like for you? And yeah, tell us everything?

[00:28:51] NN: Yeah. We were both full of excitement. And also, a bit of nerves. I know, which I think is good, because you need to have a bit of nerves when you care about something as much as we do. You’re right. It was exactly what I was hoping as well. I was really excited for us to be able to gather in-person safely. We had a lot of things in place to make sure that everybody felt safe, which was really great as well.

But there is something so special about being able to do this work with the accountability and witnessing of others. I know that I've talked to you about this, Linds. There is a huge – Group therapy is a really big thing. And the reason for that is that there is incredible change and growth that can happen when you're in the space of others, and you're seeing what others are doing. You're gaining inspiration from them. You're learning from them. You're holding space for them as other participants of the group. You're making a safe space for other people. And you are also – It's a bit of a different process than being individually because you are collectively experiencing this change and transformation together. And there's a sense of like, “Okay, I’m not by myself. I'm not alone. I'm in this with other people.” And we can all do this in our own way. So I was really excited to be able to have that because I think that's something we've also been missing, just that energy of being with other people being connection and community with others was so wonderful.

[00:30:24] LA: It was big value for us. Like why we wanted to do it was to create – Or a purpose for us, a purpose or value, was to create some community connection, bring people together. Like we just don't have enough of that right now as safely as possible too.

[00:30:38] NN: Exactly, yeah, yeah. Really kind of trying to strengthen that again. And then just I think the moving from sort of the journaling that we did, to art making, back into journaling, and kind of exploring that world of like the verbal – Well, you landed us was such an awesome meditation, which really grounded us in the space. And I know a lot of the participants, including myself, who was in the space said that that just really allowed for us to come together to kind of leave everything that was in our evening and just land there. And then we were really able to dive into that internal exploration. So jumping from the more verbal sort of language-based into symbolism, and color, and creation.

[00:31:24] LA: Oh, just watching them create that was so rewarding. Like, truly beautiful. And I love what you said about the group therapy portion of it, because that just feels so true, that there's this essence of – Like we had a group agreement. We had everything that would be there in a traditional group therapy experience. But it was not group therapy. It was like slightly different. And I just think that we brought something out of ourselves that, “Hey, maybe it does exist. Like maybe other people are doing that, too.” But I haven't heard of it. And if you are doing it, message us, because we want to take your course. We were saying the whole time that we wish we could be participants at our own course.

[00:32:04] NN: We're always learning.

[00:32:05] LA: Yeah, we love to learn. But what I'm saying is just this, like, different. It was different. It was something different that I don't think any of the current participants there had done before. And it was definitely something I never witnessed before as a practitioner as well, which I think was really, really cool, really beautiful.

[00:32:26] NN: Yeah. Yeah, what were some of the things – Like, what did you – There were so many beautiful moments and, really, like moments where I – And you probably feel the same, Linds. These are the moments that really remind me how much I love my work, where I'm just like blown away by what people are able to access for themselves. And I'm wondering what you kind of noticed.

[00:32:49] LA: Yeah, thank you for asking that. What did I notice? Oh my gosh! Like I was really inspired. I just noticed people's processing of their own stuff. So they were bringing out what was important to them, and they were processing it. And there was like little light bulbs. It sounds a little cliché. But I was seeing each participant kind of like going in and then coming out, going in and coming out in a way that I haven't seen multiple people do that at the same time.

So there was like a group energy being built. And I just felt like we're going to do another event soon. And we'll talk about that too. But like, I have a feeling that that is going to be the return for us. Like the energetic return is going to be around watching that kind of group. I'm swirling my finger in a circle, but it's like that kind of cyclone of that group energy. I think that's going to be, for me, what is so rewarding and so beautiful about it.

And the imagery, that to me is just so powerful when people – It's a vulnerable thing when people show you the imagery that's happening inside of them. Like I can imagine that to be one of the most rewarding parts of your job is those are private images. And it's like anybody who shares their art, any artist, I am always just like humbled by that uncovering that they're giving us in their art, regardless of what it is.

Like, I'm sure you've heard people say this, and I know I have thought this before, where it's like you see a painting or a piece of art of any kind that's kind of simple and you're kind of like, “Huh, I wonder what they were thinking,” and you're kind of judging it a little bit. And the older I get, the more I do this work, the more I'm like – It's the actual energetic of taking it from inside and putting it out for all of us to consume. That is so stunning. And that’s how I felt with the participants. I'm like, “You're taking something private and vulnerable, and allowing us to consume it.”

[00:35:05] NN: And sometimes without even knowing what that's going to be. Like, there's, oftentimes –

[00:35:12] LA: There's a risk. Yeah.

[00:35:13] NN: There's a risk. And it's a little scary at first. And especially for us as adults, when we don't do this very often, we're like, “I don't know what I'm going to do.” Like, “What could I possibly create?” And then it's like things just start flowing. And you might start from a place of total unknown, to something landing outside of yourself. And it's pretty awesome to witness that process for yourself and for others.

[00:35:42] LA: Yeah. And that group dynamic, I think, is – I'll come back to that. It's just like a really humbling, powerful to witness. So I think that was what I noticed or what was really happening for me during that.

[00:35:55] NN: I love that.

[00:35:56] LA: Yeah, thank you for asking.

[00:35:56] NN: Yeah.

[00:35:57] LA: And we have another event coming soon.

[00:35:59] NN: Yes, we do.

[00:36:00] LA: So on April 22nd, 2022. So depending on when you're listening to this. We hope you can come. We will be doing this again. And the topic is stepping into your power and accessing your power. That's our topic for our first session that we did. And it'll be this session as well. And we hope to do other topics going forward so we can have that beautiful witnessing that we're talking about. And dear listener, we hope that you're there. And so I want to ask Nia, like, where can we find you? Like, how do we follow you? How do we keep up with your work?

[00:36:38] NN: Yes, sure. So I am in some different places. So I am working – currently, I'm working in private practice at Therapy Collective here in Calgary, which is a really, really cool group of women who are – we have a few different types of therapists. We’re all a little bit different, but all kind of aligned as well in the way we see things too. And the clinic is run by two really powerful and wonderful women. So that's a pretty great place to check out. So you can see us at www.therapycollective.ca. You can also find me on Instagram @Nia.Neumann.

[00:37:18] LA: Nia.neumann?

[00:37:21] NN: Yes. Have to spell it out for everybody. But I'm sure that will be written somewhere. 

[00:37:24] LA: It'll be in the show notes. It’ll be in the show notes.

[00:37:25] NN: Exactly, exactly. So it doesn't hurt to spell it. Yeah, those are pretty much the places to find me as well. I do have a website of my own. Technically, my business name is Elbow River Art Therapy and Counseling. But I am practicing out of Therapy Collective. So you can also find me at elbowriverarttherapycounselling.com

[00:37:46] LA: Hmm, maybe. I guess we'll find out.

[00:37:47] LA: I will double check, and we’ll put it in the show notes.

[00:37:49] LA: I will put it in the show notes. I do that too. I’m like, “I have no idea. What's my website? What's my name? Who am I on Instagram? Who cares?” The people are going to find us.

[00:37:54] NN: I know. The people will find us, yes.

[00:37:59] LA: The people will find us.

[00:37:59] NN: So those are the best places to kind of keep tabs on what we're up to, what I'm up to, and all the good things.

[00:38:04] LA: And our events as well.

[00:38:05] NN: And our events as well, for sure.

[00:38:07] LA: Yeah. So I'll also share that if you are feeling called to come to our event on April 22, or any of our events thereafter, you can find tickets on my website, which will be in the show notes as well. We're just using my website as the landing spot. But this is really a joint venture between Nia and I. So our Turning Inward Brand is kind of living on my website right now. So you can go ahead there and purchase your tickets. And we really hope to see you there.

[00:38:34] NN: We sure do. We're really excited.

[00:38:36] LA: Yes, we’re really excited. And we know that you'll love it. Even when we were developing this, we're like, “This is for the people.” The people are going to love this. We know that people are going to love this. We got great feedback about it from our first session. And we just can't wait to do more. And we want to do an all-male session as well. So if you are male, presenting yourself as male, and want to join us, please shoot either of us a message and we would be so happy to send you the information about that when it arises. But that's something we think we can support our male friends with. And yeah, I'm sure we'll have other ones as well as time goes on.

[00:39:13] NN: Yeah. I think we've got lots of ideas in the work we do. So I think we can definitely offer some pretty, pretty neat things to people that we're feeling excited about that will resonate with people over the coming months and years.

[00:39:26] LA: Yeah. And years, forever. Forever and ever. So Nia, I want to just close off by hearing from you and just like what happened in our conversation today. What would you call this conversation?

[00:39:37] NN: Wow! Every time I speak with you, Linds, whether it's in kind of a professional place or in a personal place, I always feel just really overwhelmed with gratitude and connectedness to you. And I think that I really always feel really seen and heard by you and in our space together. And I feel like that today. I feel like that and all the other times that we spent time together as well, and in my coaching experiences as well, which has been really fulfilling. And yeah, I’m filled with gratitude. I'm filled with excitement. I'm filled with a little bit of pride. We had an event that we felt was really important and is important to us, and the work that we do and what we want to offer the world. And I'm really just excited that we did it. And we're doing another one. And we are present with people. And we're here with people. And I think that's I think what gives both of us a lot of our own vitality and our own aliveness, which is pretty awesome.

[00:40:42] LA: Absolutely. Like, I am so filled with pride for us. That is not easy. Like just people out there, it's not easy to put your heart and soul into something, and just kind of throw it at the wall and hope that it sticks and hope people come and hope people love it. And then realizing that they did was just like just the icing on the cake.

[00:41:03] NN: And so courageous for the people that showed up too.

[00:41:05] LA: Our gratitude is a cavern for our participants, because it's not easy. It's not easy to bare your soul. And like I said, that I'm so humbled by those images of just what came out. And it takes a lot of bravery to look at yourself in the mirror in any capacity. And our participants did that and more. So I couldn't agree more. Thank you for our first participants who came to us. We hope to see you again soon.

[00:41:31] NN: Yes, we sure do.

[00:41:33] LA: Well, with that being said, I think that's it for us. Nia, thank you so much for coming on. I'm also filled with gratitude and pride in both of us. And dear listeners, we will see you again soon.

[00:41:45] NN: Thank you for having me.

[00:41:46] LA: You're welcome. Bye-bye.

[OUTRO] 

[00:41:48] LA: Thank you for being here with me. If you loved this episode of Positively Charged, please rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. If you could benefit from illuminating your own personal power, please contact me to get a free coaching consultation. Stay positively charged, my friends.

[END]