Episode 42 - Burning the Patriarchy with Carling Middlestead

On the show today we met with podcaster and truth teller, Carling Middlestead. Carling is a queer identifying powerhouse podcast host, she is on a mission to share the stories of everyday people in hopes that people will feel less alone. 

Carling and I talk about how her work on her show "I did not sign up for this" has changed the world and how she is burning the patriarchy while honouring her unique genius. You do not want to miss this! Tune into her show to listen to the amazing stories of resilience and connection she shares.

https://www.instagram.com/ididnotsignupforthis.podcast/ 
https://www.patreon.com/Ididnotsignupforthis 
https://www.ididnotsignupforthis.com/ 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Positively Charged Podcast. I'm a certified coach who's innately curious and loves discussing life, work, family, and everything in between. My guests and I are sharing how we step into our power and live a positively charged life. Let's dive in.

[00:00:23] Welcome. Welcome to another episode of Positively Charged. I am your host Lindsay, and dear listeners, I have a treat for you. I have the wonderful. Carling here with me, and she has a podcast, so she's a pro. Um, she's a pro on my podcast. So, um, you know, we're bowing down to the pro of podcasting here. And, uh, Lynn's, you know, well, how many, how many episodes do I have?

[00:00:51] Like, uh, we're talking like 40 ish and Carling has way more than that and a hundred. Thousand downloads on her podcast. People like this is, this is not small potatoes, this is big potatoes and Carlene, I just like could not be more grateful to have you on the other side of the mic, cuz I get it. It's a little bit weird being on the other side of the mic and just taking that chance and being here with me on Positively Charged.

[00:01:17] I love you. I think you're just so special and so wonderful and the work you're doing in the world is so amazing and great and so I just can't wait to share that with the world. Um, I'm gonna briefly say, um, listeners that car and I, I don't even know if we've actually met in real life. No, I, no, I don't think so.

[00:01:35] Um, but Car is a partner of a friend of mine that I used to work with back in corporate and this friend is a dear friend and is like so wonderful and beautiful and I'm just like so grateful that the two of you are together and just like living this amazing life that we're watching. And, um, so shadow to lens because I just, not me.

[00:01:58] I know I picked the best. Yeah. Yeah. You, you picked the right one with the right name, that's for sure. That's true. Um, and yeah, so I'm just grateful to know you through her and to. Yeah, just have your special, special self on the, on the pod. So thank you so much for coming. Oh my gosh, thank you. I am longtime listener.

[00:02:17] First time caller. Oh, I love that. I love your podcast . And yeah, my partner Lindsay was like, oh yeah, I used to work with her. She's great. And so I just started following along and just fell in love with everything you do. Yeah. And so then after many mishaps of us trying to connect , we just did it one day on the fly.

[00:02:36] Yes. Over FaceTime or Zoom or something. And it was amazing. It was amazing. Um, and I so appreciate that vibe, man. Um, I love that vibe of just like, we're just like, we feel magnetized, so let's just keep following that magnet, even though all those obstacles are standing in our way. Who cares? Timing, who cares?

[00:02:53] Technology, who cares, sickness, who cares? Let's just get her done. And I'm just so grateful. I'm so super grateful. And Carlene, I would love to just hear. We kind of heard that you said yes because you think I'm cool too, but why did you say yes to the podcast and like, tell us a bit about yourself so the listeners can get a little weird picture of what we're seeing here.

[00:03:14] Yeah, I'm just like this. I'm Carlin, I'm a 39 year old, quickly approaching 40 queer identifying Canadian who is just trying to make a little mark on the world. And I've found my passion through doing it through podcasting and sharing people's stories. And um, one of the things I'm really trying to focus on in, as I approach 40 in the season of my life is sort of, um, finding more opportunities to share my story a little bit and, you know, maybe broaden the mark I'm leaving in the world through other podcasts and things.

[00:03:57] Yeah. Yay. We're so happy that you said yes. Um, and by we, I mean me because it's just me. Um, I'm so happy you said yes. And we are so excited to hear your story. And I heard you say just so many things there. Like you are a podcaster, you're queer, um, you're making a mark on the world. Like all of those things.

[00:04:16] Oh, all three of those things are amazing and everything else you said. So tell us, Carlene, tell us your story. Tell us how you got to this podcast seat. Right. Oh gosh. Yeah. I think it's, it's always funny cuz I feel like it's like I'm doing a lot of introspective work and so I'm seeing it through this different lens, but I really have been drawn to sort of be the representation and find the representation that I didn't have growing up mm-hmm.

[00:04:43] and that I didn't have in the world when I really needed it. You know? And I do a lot of thinking about like, who maybe would I have been or what maybe would I have done if I had just had the representation that I needed. And so through that, you know, it just, I love podcasts, I've love them so much and I thought, hmm, like maybe I should start one.

[00:05:03] So, um, I'm now a solo podcaster, but I was doing a podcast with one of my friends and we just thought like, you know, we, we've been through so much and we wanna share our stories and listen to other people's stories and just kind of create that sense of connection in the world. The world is such a big place and.

[00:05:24] Everybody has a story to share. It's basically our, the tagline. Absolutely. Can you tell us more? Can you tell us the name of your podcast and how it came to be? And tell us about Michelle and tell us about it all. Yeah, so the podcast is called, I did not sign up for this and it really came, um, Michelle's husband passed away quite suddenly and unexpectedly almost four years ago.

[00:05:48] And, We were really just kind of thinking she wasn't working like she had been off raising babies and needed to go back to work and we thought like we just need like a passion project, something that maybe could one day make some money. And at first we thought we should do true crime because we love true crime.

[00:06:06] But it is a very oversaturated market and I think if you can't do it, um, in a unique way, you know, I think it's just easy to sort of recycle the same stories that are out there. And so, um, you know, we were sort of evaluating what we could do and, and I, in another life, married a man and maybe the worst one.

[00:06:28] And , he was abusive. And, you know, I left and there was jail in court and all these things, and I just sort of was reflecting on that and I was like, we did not sign up for this. Like, we did not sign up for some of the trauma that we've been through. And so ki that was sort of the. You know, I just called her up, or I think I text her one day and I said, I did not sign up for this.

[00:06:49] I think that's our topic and it's just grown. And I think thankfully because of the pandemic, it really forced us to, um, look at how to record remotely. And that included finding guests from all over the world. And, um, I'm just getting set to release episode 1 55. Oh my gosh. And I know it's so many. That is so, like listeners, like I, I I can't explain in words how much work it takes to make your show happen.

[00:07:21] Um, and. Like just it, it's, it looks so seamless. Like when I was a baby podcaster, while I still am, but when I first started I was like, I'm just gonna do it. I didn't have any idea. But like to have, you said 155, right? Yeah, like 155 episodes. That is hundreds of hours, like probably thousands of hours of work, and it's a huge accomplishment.

[00:07:49] Huge accomplishment. Just thinking. Yeah, it's, yeah. It, yeah. I'm trying, I don't know. Like I still, I, some days I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm just no plugging away. I Google a lot of things. I ask a lot of questions, and I'm just making it work somehow. Yeah, you're doing it. And so you said to Michelle, I did not sign up for this.

[00:08:09] She's like, yeah, fuck me neither. Um, and you kicked off your ep, you kicked off your podcast on that topic. Yeah. And it is so inspiring. Honestly, it's devastating. Like all the episodes have a devastating element where like, I love your podcast, obviously, and I'm a longtime listener, and, uh, also first time caller.

[00:08:31] Um, well, second time now. . Yeah. But it's like, it's so, it, the stories are so inspiring and devastating all at once. And that dichotomy of is, is like what makes it so special. And so, Intriguing to hear these stories and like just tune into these fabulous, amazing, resilient people who you're talking to. It's just remarkable.

[00:08:58] It really is. It's so, it's so rewarding to listen and every time there's a new episode, I'm like, like, I'm kind of like, what is it gonna be? Yeah. I'm a little bit nervous cuz I'm like, where's my mental health today? Am I ready, ? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and one thing that I think that I really try, you know, one of the things that we use as trauma, um, coping skills is laughter and humor.

[00:09:22] And, you know, I always say like, if I'm not laughing, I'm probably crying, so. Mm-hmm. , I'd rather make a joke when I can. And so we really do find guests that can kind of like find those light moments, even in those really dark stories. So. Mm-hmm. , it's not al you know, I mean some of the stories are very heavy, some are more lighthearted.

[00:09:40] Um, but I think at the end of it, it's really about the resilience and the coming through. What you've come through mm-hmm. and, you know, everybody really has a time in their life when they can say like, I did not sign up for this. Yeah. Like I was just explaining to my sister right before this, I was like, oh, I'm, I'm interviewing Carlene and, and you should really listen to her podcast.

[00:10:01] And I was explaining it and just as I was explaining it, I was like, wow, it's so relatable to have the concept of I did not sign up for this. And that's why I think like I reached out to you is because, or whatever order at one 10 or why I'm so excited somehow we connected. Yeah. Whatever. I'm a fan and I probably reached out , iTalk, all these people I'm a fan of.

[00:10:23] Um, just because that kind of reminds me of coaching is, and that's the work I do for the listeners who are just tuning in because they know you. Um, I'm a certified executive coach and I would say, I don't know the numbers, but like, definitely more than 50% of the time people are coming to coaching because they didn't sign up for something.

[00:10:45] Mm-hmm. , um, they're stuck because of something that they didn't, uh, consciously choose, or they consciously chose it and didn't realize what the outcomes would be. And so I felt really like every time I listen to an episode, I think about how I would coach someone in that experience. That's just my mindset.

[00:11:05] Wow. Yeah. And it's such a beautiful experience for me. Like, it's such a, like that's my, um, that's the lens that I'm seeing or hearing the podcast from is like, what would I ask them? What would I. Uh, what would I glean out of that conversation that would show them how amazing they are? And you do that work on the podcast.

[00:11:25] You really do. I feel like you're, when I listen, I'm really sensing that your guests are feeling seen and heard. And thank you. No, you're so welcome cuz it is a compliment. Um, it's not easy work to allow people to be seen and heard and understood. And you and I do the same job. You know, like, ultimately that is exactly what I do as a coach, is allow people to be seen, heard, and understood in a way that is not, they're not used to having.

[00:11:53] And it, you know, I like to say that we wouldn't, you know, and you do the same thing on your show is like there's no strings attached to what you're asking your, your guests. Mm-hmm. . Um, it's like you're just innately curious about what they've gone through and how they've come through on the other side.

[00:12:11] And it allows your guests to. Like, say their truth in a way that they don't, they not always can say to their loved ones or to someone who has a vested interest in what they do and Yeah. And who they are. And I just think that that's a really beautiful gift that you and Michelle and just you as well, I have given to the guests is just their stories being made okay for them.

[00:12:39] Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Even though it's really fucking hard, what they're doing and what they're going through, and yeah. I'm just really celebrating you in that. It's just such a beautiful experience. Thank you. Yeah. I think I, I would argue almost every single guest says, I don't know, like, I don't even know if my story's that interesting or I don't know if my story is deserving of this platform.

[00:13:01] And I would argue that every single episode somebody reaches out and says, I didn't realize somebody else also went through that, or I really, you know, connected with this part of that story. I didn't know anybody else could feel that way. And, you know, I think it is the stories of everyday people, you know, they're, you know, they're celebrities that have podcasts and, you know, you know, people with big names and big followings, but it's the people that kind of just are living their lives and something happens and they get through it.

[00:13:32] And, you know, those are the stories that I think, again, like, you know, going back to being the representation I mm-hmm. wish that I had had, you know, I didn't feel heard, I didn't feel listened to as a kid. And, you know, that's resulted in, I have a really hard time opening up and sharing. But I do have this like innate curiosity and.

[00:13:52] You know, desire to just, just hold space for people in a way that lets them share their story in their words the way that they want. And I just bring my curiosity and ask the questions that come up as we're talking. What a gift, what a fucking gift like it truly is. Um, it, that is not an experience that everyone gets to experience in their lifetime.

[00:14:14] Mm-hmm. like in their whole lifetime. And when people are going through the most heinous and difficult experiences to allow them to be seen in that way, it's just like, it's, I'm shaking my head because I don't know what else to say. It's just so important and heartfelt, and that is such a beautiful gift that you give to them.

[00:14:42] Thank you. I try. Thank you. You're so welcome. So, I'm just curious, like, I'm curious about a thousand things, but , I'm really curious how you have grown since starting the podcast. Like, who are you now versus who you were before? I did not sign up for this. Yeah. I think I've really, um, reluctantly decided to realize that I am a compassionate person and I am good at holding space for people.

[00:15:20] And I take it very, I don't know if seriously is the right word, but I put a lot of weight in my ability to hold space for people and make people feel welcome and part of something because, you know, like I didn't have that. And so I think when I first started, I tried to play off being sort of like goofy and I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:15:43] And those were true things, but. You know, really sitting in, sitting in and giving myself credit for the time I've invested and the, you know, the, the craft I'm honing and you know, what, what I'm building through this podcast. So I think it's, and it's also really sort of sent me on this journey of realizing how important representation is in every aspect in people's stories, in their lived experiences, and, Just like how passionate I am about that.

[00:16:16] Mm-hmm. , I, I can't state that enough. Yeah. Like you're not only allowing your guests to feel seen, but you're allowing a whole group of people who, the listeners to witness it. And in that witnessing, they feel seen as well. It's this beautiful ripple effect of people feeling validated and like they belong.

[00:16:38] Yeah. And like, holy shit. Like that's so important, um, that people feel like they can belong. And I'm just like, just hearing from your story that that was kind of missing for you at a point in your life. And I'm totally curious about that. Like, is it queerness? Is it something else? Like where did you feel like you didn't belong before?

[00:17:00] And how do you feel like you belong now? Yeah, I think it's really, you know, I, I wish I could say that like, oh, it's because of this, or oh, it's because of that. But for some reason, you know, I am the second born, I'm the youngest of two kids, and my sister was just always the golden child. And you know, she was y you know, and people often are like, no, like that's just your perception.

[00:17:26] But like we have video evidence and other family members agree that like, no, your sister was always on this pedestal. And especially with my dad, and especially with my dad's side of the family and. You know, if I didn't have d n a through ancestry to prove it, I would question if maybe I didn't belong.

[00:17:46] You know what I mean? Like Right. It would be a believable story to find out that that wasn't really my family, and that's why I was always sort of on the outs. But, but I am genetically part of that family and just for some reason I just was always kind of the outcast in my family and I was always, you know, seeking attention and not getting it, and always second thought.

[00:18:09] And, you know, it, it just, that was sort of my earliest memories. Um, you know, we have home videos of, you know, my sister doing something and it's on camera, and then I show up and I'm talking like 3, 4, 5, 6 years old. You know, when I'm doing something and I'm sort of like s shish off screen, like I'm sort of moved aside because, and that just like wholly sums up my experience as a small child.

[00:18:36] And then, you know, I think. I don't know at, you know, at what age did I start to know that I was attracted to same sex, but I know that I had crushes on girls in kindergarten with, but I didn't have language or representation. You know, there was nothing like that. And then I think probably like, I don't know, when j I always talk about Jerry Springer because the first time that I sort of was like that I saw a lesbian was like Jerry Springer.

[00:19:08] Like that was, that was what was in the world as representation. Um, I'm shaking my head and like, yeah, like it, oh, disbelief. Like how is that possible? Yeah, I mean, I'm 39, so if you think, you know, like 30 years ago or you know, 25 years ago, it was really before Ellen came out. And even when she did come out, it was sort of like, you know, not great and.

[00:19:33] So I remember seeing like lesbians on Jerry Springer and thinking like, oh, well that's not me. Like I, that's not how I see myself. And so there was just this like, confusing time of like not knowing, you know, like who I was or how I identified, but I knew that I wasn't, you know, straight, I didn't have that language at the time.

[00:19:52] Mm-hmm. . Um, and then at 14 I like met another lesbian and fell in love instantly as you do at 14. And obviously, yeah. And had over heels and I was like, oh, I'm a lesbian. And, you know, my, my family found out and like, they didn't shove me back in the closet in the sense that. Well, my family's notorious for not talking about anything.

[00:20:19] So I don't know specifically why, but it just was like, no, like it was just sort of like a no. And then we didn't talk about it. And, you know, then I went to a Catholic high school and you know, that propaganda was thick. Um, and you know, the, I like our deacon would like walk around and like, walk between two people and be like, you gotta leave room for Jesus.

[00:20:46] And like, you know, like that was, there was no gayness, there was no sex talks and healthy bodies and bloody blah. And so, yeah. And then after high school I was like, okay, well everyone seems to be getting married. I guess I'll. I guess I'll just do that. And when I think back, I talk a lot about like my theory of the straight agenda, you know, and all these, like, mostly straight white men talk about the gay agenda and like all these, you know, um, fears.

[00:21:19] But I really think there's like this like straight agenda that we are given as a society from the minute your gender is assigned at birth that dictates how society will accept you and celebrate you and how to fit in with society. And I, you know, I think I learned really quickly that the best way to fit in was to just like check all these boxes.

[00:21:42] And it was proven by, you know, I started dating this guy who had become my husband and my family was so excited and they were celebrating me and I was suddenly getting all this attention that I had so craved as a mm-hmm. as an adolescent and a young child. And so, As any human does, like it's a reward system.

[00:22:04] So I was like, this is great. So I guess we'll move in together. And then that was high-fived and celebrated and people were buying us gifts and then, you know, and then we decided to buy a house and like, whoa, that was next level. And then, you know, now I'm hosting dinners at my house with my boyfriend.

[00:22:21] And then, you know, the proposal happened and it was very public. And you know what, what nobody chose to recognize or I didn't know how to voice, was like the horrific abuse I was facing within that relationship. But I knew that if I ended it or told somebody, I would be the disappointment and I would be the reason, you know, that I would no longer be on this, I don't know, like pedestal, so to speak.

[00:22:50] And then I remember getting engaged and not wanting to, but it was public and like I didn't wanna be that guy, you know, that says no. And. I talk about like, I think as soon as you get engaged there's this like freight train that you're put on and it is propelled, it's true, yes. Light speed to the altar.

[00:23:11] And I just think like, why do we do that? Like, not one time did anybody say like, is this what you want? Are like, are you sure you're good with this? How do you feel about this? We were too busy celebrating, and I was too busy being showered with gifts and praise and attention and money and you know, like all like the love and adoration and acceptance of my dad.

[00:23:32] Like, you know, it was just like every wound, my childhood wounds was just being mended by these, you know, accomplishments or check marks on a list. And so I was just doing the things that got me that, that sense of acceptance and belonging and. You know, we got the dog, we got the s u v, we, you know, we got married.

[00:23:53] I laughed because like on the wedding day, I like a, I didn't wanna do it, but here we were, and I'm no quitter. So , , I'm getting that reinforcement of love that I deserve. Yeah. And so, yeah, I, we woke up late, like me and my bridal party woke up late, got lost getting to the church, and then as my mom and dad walked me through, like, into the church, the um, like archway fell on us.

[00:24:24] It was like literally like, I don't know if I believe in God, but the universe, something was like, we have tried everything. Yes. We cannot go through with this. And I was just like, screw you universe, . And then like, you know, with all hundred and whatever, friends and family, Showering us with love and acceptance and praise.

[00:24:45] I did the thing and I got married and, you know, nine months later it came crashing down and was a nightmare. And, you know, led to 10 years of, you know, being stalked and harassed and in and out of court and, you know, all of these things. And I just can't help but think like, what if somebody had said, Hey girl, you wanna do this?

[00:25:08] Like, are you sure you're okay with this? Yeah. Carlin, I just heard you say like, what if someone saw you? Yeah. What, like what if somebody saw me and saw and didn't see the like, show I was trying to put on and didn't see the, and you know, the agenda. That was the agenda. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Like it, it's really. I don't know now that I've sort of seen it in this lens when, and I work in weddings and events, so it, the irony.

[00:25:33] But , you know, I do think, I, I always just think, you know, if I know somebody that gets engaged, I always find an opportunity to check in with them. Mm-hmm. and just to say like, you know what? I don't care if you're halfway down that aisle. I don't care if they, you've said I do, and something changes, like, my car is right there, we will go.

[00:25:51] Right. Because I didn't have that and like, maybe I wouldn't have said anything because, you know, I, I was so set up for this in, in my experiences growing up that it, that maybe it wouldn't have done anything. But I do wonder like what if people had just noticed and I think, you know, my family and community was more worried.

[00:26:15] Me finally fitting in and me finally, you know, doing the things that they had hoped for me and wished for me and mm-hmm. . Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Like, gosh, that's hard. Um, I'm really seeing you in that pain and difficulty of like having to almost choose to sacrifice yourself to, um, just get the bare minimum that you deserve as a human being is really a immense pressure and frustration and, you know, yeah.

[00:26:49] Like, it, it's like the universe is trying to stop it and it's like such an invitation to listen closer. Um, yeah. To so dear listener, who's hearing this story, like if you are being. Kind of hit over the head with a cosmic archway. Um, , listen to that. Like there's, there's something there. Maybe it's not Yeah.

[00:27:14] Like a turnaround and, and leave it all. But there's something true inside of those messages. And I think what you're saying, Carlin, is that it would've saved you a lot of pain, um, if you would've listened or if someone would've noticed, or we can't never change the past though. And so I guess my, my curiosity is how has that experience shaped who you really are today, like the truest version of yourself today?

[00:27:43] How did that whole story shape that part of you? Yeah, I think it really, it really made me realize sort of like how fragile, I don't know, like our. How fragile, I shouldn't speak for everybody. My perception of self was, and I was so wanting the acceptance. And so, you know, I, like, I still wanna be accepted and fit in and, and all this stuff, but I've really forced myself to say like, who am I and how do I wanna show up in the world?

[00:28:20] And, you know, it, it's really, you know, people in my life have start, you know, started having kids and it's just, I, it made me so much more passionate about showing up as my true self. Because if I had had a me, you know, growing up, like I, I, my godmother, I didn't really have a relationship with, um, outside, you know, since I was 10 maybe, and she's passed away now, but I think she was gay and, you know, when I look back, but it just wasn't talked about and it just wasn't, you know, and so, I don't know.

[00:28:58] I think I even asked my grandma once and she was like, no. Like, it just didn't even dawn on her. And so I just think I, I try to show up, you know, I think the word authentically kind of gets tossed around too much. But I do try to show up like authentically and as myself and I try to ask questions and I, you know, I.

[00:29:19] I sort of, I probably irritate a lot of like white men, but I like it's okay. We don't mind irritating them. . Yeah. Like I do. I just, white men. I love you. White men. Or if you're hearing this, I love you so great. I love you. Mm-hmm. and you are the problem. Yeah. Maybe not you, but you as a group. Maybe not you listening, but you as a group.

[00:29:40] So park that there. . Yeah. We need a disclaimer at the top of the episode that's like, dear white men episode may be triggering. And I'm sorry . Except, but like Yeah. Except we're not, sorry, not sorry. Our fucking lives. Yeah. I do a statement. I just like, I question things and I, you know, and it's probably annoying sometimes, but you know, like my dad even used to say like, um, you.

[00:30:10] Something about, like, he was, he was okay that I was with women, but he would sort of hint that he still expected to have somebody ask permission to marry me. And I, and you know, and I would just be like, okay, but I'm not property. And also like, this is not cave times. Like I'm not a, a piece of property to be handed from one person to the other.

[00:30:32] And, you know, and I, and it blew his mind. He didn't get it. And I was like, but like, why do we do that? Like, why are, why is somebody walking me down the aisle? And, you know, I just, I, yeah. I don't know. I think I sort of like pushed boundaries and in questioning people about, I love that. Like, why? Like why are we doing that?

[00:30:50] That doesn't make any sense. Oh my gosh. Like the rebellion behind that is so beautiful. Um, and like, yeah, like the rebellion of asking, well, why is it this way? And why can't it be different? And that doesn't align with what feels true and authentic and like, Perfect for me. Yeah. Um, and just like exploring that.

[00:31:14] It's brave. It's a really brave thing to do. And I like, I feel like that's part of your message is you are so brave Carlin for what you've gone through. Of course. And I, I, I don't know the word brave is like a little like kind of triggering for me too, cuz it's like, well no, that's just my fucking life.

[00:31:35] I'm not brave from just living my life. But I think there's like, what I mean by that word anyway and intention and impact are different, but what I mean by that word is like the part inside you that could have died in the process of abandoning yourself. Mm-hmm. , you kept her alive. Yeah. Like, and that is brave.

[00:31:58] Like that is the part that is really remarkable. Thank you. Yeah. It really, you know, and even, yeah, I've just, I think, and the closer I get to 40, I'm 39 now, you know, and over the last five years I'd say, I just sort of, so like something shifted and I just started to question everything. And, you know, even like my last long-term relationship was with a woman and I was fully out and, but I was still really holding onto this idea that I had to still be feminine and Mm.

[00:32:33] You know, this idea that I was, it's okay to be gay, but I was still accepted as a straight passing feminine. Mm. And it always kind of like, it, like grinded my gears, but like, because I wanted it to be seen and identified as a lesbian and a member of the queer community. And so I would, but I, but I didn't know that I was allowed to, or I didn't know like, what that looked like and.

[00:33:00] You know, it, it actually almost ended my long-term relationship. At the time we were, we were still together a few years after that, but I just cut all off all my hair. I had hair down past my armpits. Oh. And I wore a ton of makeup, and I, you know, wore skirts and heels and, you know, pants without pockets, which is strictly against my absolutely a sin, a sin.

[00:33:20] If there are not pockets in these pants, I will not put them on. I have, I have a little story, just a little interlude. I bought my husband. A sweatsuit for Father's Day a couple years ago. Oh. And I had embroidered dad on it in like this, like kind of like Roman looking font. And it, I was like, oh, this is cute.

[00:33:38] Like this is kind of fun and looks kind of trendy. And I bought the sweatsuit, had it in, had it embroidered, gave it to him, happy Father's Day, my love. And he put it on and it looked great fit and lovely. And he's like, there's no fucking pockets in these pants. , welcome to our life. And he had a conniption, like he was like, this is absolute bullshit.

[00:34:02] And he like takes them off, literally throws them out. He's like, I will never wear these. I'm against this in every way. This is bullshit. He was enraged. Yeah. And I was like, there was a something that like went off in my head and I. I'm also enraged like . I'm like, why don't pants have pockets? Why do I accept this blasphemy out of my own pants?

[00:34:26] Yeah. . Yeah. And then I was like, well the patriarchy. But it was just, yeah, it was just so like, I appreciate that so much. And men don't even have this conversation cuz every pair of pants has pockets. Like he was outraged by these pants. Even though they were men's. Yeah, they were, for some reason they just didn't have pockets.

[00:34:47] And it was like, where am I gonna put my phone? Where am I gonna put my wallet? Yeah. And chap stick Where? Purse. A purse hand when you don't know what to do. A purse. Yeah. And that's where I put my shit. Yeah. Anyway. And pulling everybody else's shit. . Yeah. Like if that's not symbolism, like ladies with big purses, just carrying around everybody's shit.

[00:35:07] Yes. And oh my gosh, it was just so funny. Um, that's amazing. And I was so like proud of him too. Like I was like, Yes. That is the anchor I feel as a woman in the patriarchal world, like you now know how I feel. He saw me in that moment, like, he was like, holy shit, you have to deal with pants or pocket list pants every day.

[00:35:27] Like, oh God, never again. Back to you. Back to you. No. Yeah. So I, yeah, I cut my hair, stop wearing pants without pockets. Stop wearing skirts, stop wearing heels, stop wearing makeup. Like I still put a little makeup on, but that's just thanks to the patriarchy. Mm-hmm. . And yeah, I was just like, oh. And then I started being identified as queer and like, what a f what another level of being seen by your community and when you're not straight passing or, or less straight passing maybe is I'll, I'll put it that way.

[00:36:02] Yeah. Yeah. And now if somebody doesn't assume I'm gay, I'm like, that's weird. Like, how do you not know? Like it's just so funny. And yeah, there's something just. I'm just in, I don't know who I'll be in five years, but at this rate, who knows? Mm-hmm. . Um, and it's just really freeing. And I just started questioning like, why do I wear heels?

[00:36:24] They make me so uncomfortable and they hurt my back. And like, why do I wear skirts? I can't run in these, not that I run , but like, I just, like, I, every time I'd wear a skirt to like look nice, I'd be like, I would think because I have anxiety and irrational fear. What if I need to like run, squat, jump? Like this pencil skirt is not practical No.

[00:36:45] On any of those. Don't be able to outrun anything. Yeah. in the zombies are gonna get me if tonight's the night the zombies are gonna tonight. Yeah. And I'm not about that. So I'm a survivor. I'm the last of us. I'm the last of us. Oh god. . Yeah. And so I just like, You were just, yeah, like blow, my mind was blown and I just started questioning everything from like, like, why am I putting on eyeliner every goddamn day?

[00:37:12] I can never get it equal. Even , I don't know how to do the wing now. It's very fancy these days. Like I couldn't, it's be feminine today. Mm-hmm. , there's, it's quite a, it's quite a feat to get the Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I'm like, we, we've briefly talked about this before, but like, I don't wear makeup at all. Um, yeah.

[00:37:32] I only wear makeup when it's like, A, a fancy event where I feel called to it. Like there's definitely events where I don't, um, but if I feel called to it, I do it. And like, I love makeup. I'm not saying it's bad at all, like fill your boots. And I, when I get it done by a professional, oh my gosh. Like I just feel like a million dollars.

[00:37:51] I really do. Yeah. Um, but I don't really like, I don't know how to get it look like, to look good. I don't know. Like I always feel like it's, yeah, just kind of an extra that doesn't, doesn't quite land. It doesn't quite land for me. No, that's great . And I love that. Like did you wear a lot of makeup before or have you always been like, I have worn makeup before.

[00:38:15] Oh, okay. Yeah. I actually, Carlene, I will tell you the story and shout out to a past boss of mine. Um, I, and this is like, I was in a leadership position in a corporate role. Like, it was, like, I, I've already been in my career for a while and I used to wear makeup every day. Every day. Yeah. Every fucking day.

[00:38:32] You had had two Earls, what are you, a man like, oh yeah, . But that's how the world needs you, yet I never questioned it. Carlin I never once questioned it, never once. And I just got home from a vacation with my husband in Mexico. So we were in Mexico together and I forgot my makeup bag. Oh. And I was telling my, my boss, we were eating lunch together and I was like, oh my gosh, you'll never believe it.

[00:38:57] Like I forgot my makeup bag and I didn't have any makeup for the whole week. And it was awesome. Like, I loved it not having to wear a makeup. And she looked at me and she was like, Why are you wearing makeup now? Then . And I was like, yeah, I don't know. Why am I, I guess I just always have. And she's like, try not wearing it tomorrow and see what happens.

[00:39:17] And that fucking next day, last day that I wore makeup. As a regular, on a regular basis. Yeah. Like, did people like run from the building? Were you fired? Did you Yeah, I was, yeah. Like no one died. No one died. Um, and nothing happened. Absolutely nothing happened except my own personal liberation. So I'd say it was worth it.

[00:39:38] It was definitely worth it. But it was like a very much an impa, like a impetus moment where I was like, I was like, I was gushing about how not having my makeup was so awesome. And she's like, what are you doing then? ? Yeah. Are you that makeup right now? ? Yeah. And I still did my job. I still was attractive to my husband.

[00:39:58] Yeah. I was still, I loved myself even more. Um, yeah. So yeah, it was a, it was a great experience, um, moving and now I see it as like a choice. Mm. That I like to make sometimes. And yeah, I've said this before on the podcast too, but it's like, it's nice to have a choice. Like it's nice to be able to say, well, today I'm gonna choose this and today I'm gonna choose that.

[00:40:21] And I don't have to, I don't have to say why. I don't have to say how. Just do it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , you know what I love is a guy with eyeliner. Yeah, absolutely. Like, I just think like they can really rock it. Like for dudes that wear nail polish eyeliner, like, I think they look so great. Mm-hmm. , I couldn't agree more.

[00:40:40] You know what really, um, really like gets me going, like the gears going, like I just feel so attracted to someone is when they are truly. Their selves in like this. It's, it's not it, you can't see it, you can only sense it. Mm-hmm. , and I can't help but believe, and maybe this is an assumption that I need to unpack too, but I can't help but believe when someone who's male identifying decides to lean into the feminine mm-hmm.

[00:41:08] the, the, you know, stereotypically feminine, they're making a decision that is so in alignment with themselves that they have to do it because they, there is backlash. There is like, yeah. I got way less backlash from not wearing makeup than a male identifying person wearing makeup. A hundred percent. Yeah.

[00:41:28] Like, there was a huge risk for that person to do it because they're facing the patriarchal society and so that risk, it, it creates like a, it creates a bit of a pedestal for me of attraction. Mm-hmm. , where it's like, the more risk you take to be your authentic version of yourself, the more I am physically, emotionally.

[00:41:48] Energetically attracted to people, and that's what just came to my mind when you said dudes rocking eyeliner and nail polish and whatnot. Yeah. I'm just like, it's a, it's like this beautiful risk that creates this, I don't know, like the, it's like an energy. It's an energy of like just being their real true selves.

[00:42:06] Yeah. That feels so like empowering to me. Like yeah, I feel inspired and empowered when people are really, truly being the full version of themselves and whatever that looks like. Yeah. And I, that's what I'm sensing in your story is that you've kind of, you're climbing that mountain to the truest, most beautiful version of yourself.

[00:42:28] So I've said a lot. No, no. That's what I feel. and like, you know, I like my partner, Lindsay, when I, when we moved in together, we had to combine two closets and we were like, Harry, you know, where's everything gonna go? And I was like, why do you have this black dress? And I've never seen you in a dress. And she was like, well, in case I, you know, have to go to a wedding.

[00:42:48] And I was like, but what? Why do you have to wear a dress to a wedding? And she was like, I don't know. I hate them. And I was like, but like, you could, you could wear pants with or without pockets to a wedding. and like, and feel shoes. Yeah. You, and like she, I think she had a pair of like, not big heels, but like, you know, nicer, more feminine shoes.

[00:43:09] Mm-hmm. . And I was like, but what, like if these are not comfortable, why would you wear them? And you know, she had longer hair anyway, two years in and she is cut her hair and looks phenomenal. She does. And like, she, I've never seen her in a dress and she got rid of them and she was like, I don't know why.

[00:43:29] And I think sometimes you just have to like, ask the question and be like, but, but why? Because we've been so conditioned. You know, I, I talk a lot about weddings, but it's ironic that I work in weddings. But I just think like, as somebody who had a straight wedding, I just like, why do we do all of these things?

[00:43:52] And the answer, there's no good answer. Nobody's been able to give me an answer that isn't steeped in, in property passing and patriarchy. And, and I think like, if, if you're into it for a different type of symbolism, if it's just something that it's important to you to, uh, like go through that in that way, then fine.

[00:44:20] I just think there's some, I think we just need to start asking more questions and really, and like I, you know, I really changed my language to, you know, I have two stepkids and I say things like, if you ever get married, whoever you might marry, if you choose to get married. Right. Because like, also like marriage is a choice, folks.

[00:44:37] Yeah. And like we, it's not obligatory. No. You can have kids have a mortgage, get loan, you know, and do all of these things with or without a legal marriage. Mm-hmm. . Absolutely. I think, yeah. And I just think people are so stuck on, well, we've just been doing it for centuries. That's just what we do. And I just think like, maybe we should just question that.

[00:44:59] Oh gosh, what a gift. Yes. I don't know. It's true. Um, I was just recently given, Like such an honor, um, by a dear, dear friend of mine. Oh my God. I feel like I'm gonna cry just talking about this. Woo. Um, oh no. But , a very dear friend of mine is marrying the love of her life, and she's asked me to mc her wedding.

[00:45:23] And like, I, I, I just was at her house the other day and this woman is like, she's so dear to me. Um, and, uh, we were talking about, and we were, I was sitting with her and her partner and they were talking about their wedding and they're gushing about all this beautiful things that are gonna happen. And, and we, the conversation really did turn to like, we're challenging what is normal mm-hmm.

[00:45:52] and what is acceptable listeners, I'm using air quotes, um, because like, what the fuck does that even mean? Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm. I'm overjoyed for them to be witnessing them stepping into this union with such an immense amount of choice. Mm-hmm. and the every step, they're choosing it. They're choosing it.

[00:46:15] They're choosing it. They're choosing it. And it feels like the opposite of obligatory. Yes. And like it's, I just, I'm telling you that story because we've talked so much about weddings today, for whatever reason, but it's inspiring. It's like so truly inspiring. Watching people love in the way that just is right for them.

[00:46:38] Like I, I, yeah. I don't know. I, it's just, I don't know how to say it any other way, but it truly is. Such an honor, such a deep, deep honor to witness that and that is what you're doing. I just wanna like mirror that back to you, is that you're really choosing, um, in a non obligatory way to just be in service of you and yourself and what you want outta your life.

[00:47:05] And the amount of beauty in that is just, it's deep. It's so deep. Yeah. I didn't even know that I was capable of this, but here we're, yeah. And I love it. And you know, like life is so great, you know, like, and there's just this like beauty and simplicity in it that I didn't even know existed because, you know, even in my last, um, same sex relationship.

[00:47:32] I was, I could still feel like I was trying to fit a square p and a round hole. Right. You know, it just wasn't, maybe it had rounded corners, but it just wasn't white. Like I was just missing the Mark A. Little bit. And, you know, and I, I couldn't figure it out. And you know, for the first time in my life I just feel like, oh, like, I think literally once a day Lindsay or I, or both of us will be like, my God, life is great.

[00:47:58] Mm-hmm. like, we just we're so happy with, you know, and that doesn't mean that there aren't really hard days and that doesn't mean that, you know, like things don't happen. But it's just, I don't know. It's just really nice. Yeah. Really nice. And you built that, you built that through really difficult and beautiful decision making.

[00:48:20] Um, and you are Carly an inspiration for those who didn't? Or for those who look like you are like you, but are younger than you and who you didn't have, you are. And that is fucking like, yeah. Like that is the chef's kiss of showing the fuck up in your life. Yeah. Is be who you didn't have love the way that you were not loved.

[00:48:50] Mm-hmm. . And it, it's a rebellion. It's like a deep, deep rebellion. That is so inspiring. Yeah. Thank you. So inspiring. Yeah. I. Yeah, I, and I'm in such awe of, you know, like, I remember when jojo Seawalk came out. Mm-hmm. , do you know who that is? Mm-hmm. . God I love her so much. . And, and I like, I was like, oh my God, this is huge.

[00:49:14] And I like, you know, told my nieces and they were like, yeah. So like, it just wasn't a big deal. And I was so excited in that, that I was like, you're right. It's not a big deal. , it's great that you're so ambivalent about it. And, you know, and I, yeah, I, I almost sometimes have to catch myself being like, I, my stepdaughter really loves, she's like experimenting with like makeup and, you know, wanting to, you know, wear, I don't know if it's like just a 12 year old thing, but like, the amount of like body sprays and extended lotions, , I was like, that nos that age.

[00:49:53] Yeah. I'm sure. Like, and I, and like, I always just wanna be like, you don't have to wear that. Like, you could wear whatever you want, but. She is so empowered in her own. You know, like choices. So I always have to be like, no, maybe this is who she is. It's okay to be really feminine and really straight. Mm-hmm.

[00:50:10] and really, you know, we joke that we just hope that they're both gay and you know, that, that is so nice. But I, it, you know, I get what you mean by that. Um, because, or I, I'm, can I explain what I perceive? Yeah. Anyway, um, yeah, so I don't know if you've ever listened to Glennon Doyle's podcast? Oh God, yes.

[00:50:28] Right. So good. Um, so, so good. Except just stop saying Sister. Yeah, yeah. This is the only thing. Did you, did you hear her explanation of why she does that? No. So, um, , it's so funny because one of the fewer, or one of the first episodes we're going on a tangent here, but one of the first episodes, um, they were getting a lot of backlash about her calling her sister Amanda, uh, sister.

[00:50:54] Oh yeah. Like they were getting feedback. They were like, this is just like a weird power dynamic of like Glennon and sister. Yeah. And she responded, or, uh, Amanda responded and she was like, okay guys. Like, I get it. Like l not knowing our dynamic and not seeing us. We call each other's sister all the time, except for the podcast.

[00:51:16] I call Glennon Glennon, but she still calls me sister, but I call her sister too. Like we, it's right. It's completely . That's so funny. And she had this like, or what, maybe it was on her Instagram or something. I'm sure it was one of the episodes, but it was like this, like, okay, stop coming. Amanda and Glenn Infor

[00:51:38] How they talk to each other. That's so funny. It was just so funny. But I agree with you. Like there's this like, it's a weird dynamic there that we just don't know anything about. Yeah. That it kind of sets a funny tone. I've totally thought exactly that. I'm like, damn God. But it is a good podcast. Yeah. And I call my sister sister.

[00:51:56] I call my sister sister all the time. So I think that's also funny. But what was I gonna say? What the fuck was I gonna say? So we were talking your perception of, yeah. What was I perceiving? I was talking about all the smelly lotions and choosing to be feminine and like having that Yeah. Ability to know and trust yourself.

[00:52:15] Yeah. And then, and then the Glennon podcast. It's. It's gone. Oh, I'm sorry. Art. No, no, I went on the tangent about sister. Dang it. Um, if it comes back to me, I'll, I'll say it, but, uh, anyway. You're amazing. Just, but how do you, so I'm curious because you have two small children. Yeah, yeah. And how do you and your partner navigate talk of like gender and gender expression and just self-expression?

[00:52:40] Yeah. And sort of those, those like, because I, I've, I haven't looked at the study, but I've heard reference to a study that shows like literally from the minute a child's gender is identified, so like whatever they're pronounced at birth or a, a assigned at birth, I should say. Um, the treatment of them, even from the parent and from society is completely different and it sets this path of expectation and whatever, without a doubt.

[00:53:10] True. Without a doubt. Yeah. Like just even my lived experience, um, like I, they did a study and if, if somebody, they. in looking at, um, kids, a assigned male and kids assigned female babies. Um, male babies are almost always more facing outward and held further from the body, whereas babies assigned female at birth are turned into the body and held closer to the body.

[00:53:35] Interesting. Like so even just something like it starts at Concept. I don't know it when it starts. Yes. It's our conditioning, like the, yeah. Um. Thank you for asking. It's such a, it, it's something we talk about often, not honestly. Um, and I, I'll start this answer with saying the blanket statement of, I am part of the problem.

[00:53:56] Um, basically everything my girls own is pink, first of all. Yeah. Um, I personally love pink personally, so that's part of it. But I know, like I'm saying that as an excuse. I know that if they were identified male at birth, there would be much less pink stuff. Right. So, so I'm, I'm definitely, I don't want to e even remotely come across as like above this cuz I've not, so I have two daughters.

[00:54:23] Two uterus owners, um, that I birthed into the world and they were pronounced girls and I've treated them as such ever since Birth, air quotes on the as such. Um, and how we talk about, so that means pink shit. That means dresses, that means hair, bows. That means all of the things that I perceive as feminine and girly are experimented with in our family.

[00:54:53] Like it just absolutely everything. I will also say that we speak openly about choices, so. Dresses are not obligatory. My little one, uh, the younger one, she basically flat out refuses to wear dresses. She's two. Yeah. And she basically, like she says, no dresses, at least like, and she has dresses that sh pass down from her sister.

[00:55:17] Like we don't buy them for her cuz we know she does not like them. But they're hanging in her closet and her sister very feminine, um, would only wear dresses for a, a period of time. Um, and he is like, just loves hair bows, uh, dolls. Um, I don't know, just, uh, like she's just like, has a more feminine presence.

[00:55:41] Billy, my, so that's Everly Billy, my younger kid. Is she, she definitely will not wear a dress. . Yeah. And she does choose to play with dolls. Like she definitely chooses that. And she also chooses other things like they both. I don't know. Like we talk about choices. That's, that's the lens that I think I'll answer that under is like, nothing is obligatory, nothing is required.

[00:56:09] You don't have to, like, for instance, an example with my older kid who really does present more femininely, like, has a feminine energy of her. She, uh, like I offer her, she doesn't have to wear a skirt to dance class. She can wear shorts or a skirt. I always offer both. Yeah. Um, because I just feel like it's not fucking fair that her friends or boys can wear shorts.

[00:56:32] Yeah. And she's, and like, no shame in the game. This is, this is literally our society. So like, I'm not shaming any one person, place or thing. But it's, the description is where girls wear skirts, boys wear shorts. Yeah. And, Great. Like, I'm not saying that's inherently wrong or bad, but I think that my kid, regardless of whether she's a uterus owner or a penis owner, can decide whether to wear a skirt or shorts.

[00:56:57] Like it doesn't. Yeah. Like why can't it just be like, students must wear a skirt or short or this Exactly. Like there's this opportunity to streamline it. So we just tend to, with that air of decision making, it's like nothing is obligatory, nothing is required. So like Billy refused to wear her Christmas dress on Christmas.

[00:57:17] My mom buys my kids Christmas dresses every year. And that's what you do. Yeah. Cuz that's what you do. And Everly is overjoyed with it. Like she loves wearing her Christmas dress and she always, and she still wears her Christmas dress to this day. Yeah. At least once a week. Like she loves it. It's sparkly, it's red.

[00:57:35] It's like everything she wants in life. Yeah. Great. Billy would not wear it, refused to wear it and has never worn it. Not once and yeah. I don't know if that's because feminine or not. I don't know if that like I don't care because it's just her choice. Yeah. So for us, it always comes back to choice. So Everly is of the, of the age now where she's asking about boys and girls, what makes boy a boy, a girl, a girl.

[00:58:01] And our answers are always like, there's really no difference between boys and girls. There's different body parts. We all have different ways of being built, but it's a construct. And I don't say the word construct, but I say it's just a choice. It's just a choice like how you wanna be. And yes, that person is identifying as male or female or whatever the case may be.

[00:58:20] And we don't know until we ask. And that's another thing that I kind of like to encourage Everly, Billy's too young, but encourage Everly to just ask, like ask their name, ask how they wanna be referred to as, just ask the questions. Like it's just so easy. And I have to say for them, I perceive that they're not gonna have the challenges you and I had.

[00:58:43] Mm-hmm. . Yeah. In this, in this way, they, it's gonna be more second nature to just assume that whatever someone decides to be is okay and fine. Yeah. Um, They're not gonna question whether that's right or wrong, like morally, uh, you know, reprehensible or whatever. Yeah. Um, it, they're not gonna have that conver, they're not gonna have that inner dialogue the same way they g they're gonna have the generational trauma.

[00:59:09] No doubt. , like, I can't stop that from getting passed down. Yeah. But I can add differently. Like, I can ask questions, I can Yeah. Encourage them to ask and let them do what they want. It's not hurting anyone that Billy doesn't wanna wear a dress, and I don't even know if that is anything to do with her gender.

[00:59:28] Yeah. Like that. Yeah. I imagine there are very feminine people that just don't like to wear dresses and Totally. Like, absolutely. Like, and I, I know again, like I come back to me because I'm the mom, so I'm the problem in the, in the end of the day, I am the problem. I am. Always going to be part of the problem, but I think I can also always be part of the solution.

[00:59:52] Yeah. So I just go with both. I'm like both. And I'm gonna be both end. I'm gonna be part of the problem, I know it, but I'm also gonna be part of the solution and I know it. And if I can at least embrace both of those sides and do the best I can with what I have and be intentional, that's how I choose to parent.

[01:00:08] That's how I choose to talk about these things with them. And it's not always comfortable and easy. Like I'm ki I'm probably making it sound like, oh yeah, we're just really like when really I have my own. Um, that's the part of the problem part. Um, I have my own. Uh, conditioning, for lack of better word, that I can't undo.

[01:00:27] Like I can't undo that conditioning. And I also believe that I can encourage them not to have the same conditioning that I had. So, yeah. It's a bit of metal. I said a lot. Does that answer your question, ? Really? Yeah. It sounds like you're doing like the greatest thing you can, right? Like owning the fact that you don't know it all and like, oh, you know what I was gonna say?

[01:00:49] Tell me. I was gonna say about being gay. Yeah. Like you said, oh, I just hope they're gay. Like, yeah, like, it's, it's kind of a funny, like, it obviously you don't care, but like Yeah. It's like, oh, if it would be gay, that'd be so cool. And that's what happened with, uh, on. The, uh, Glennon Doyles podcast is, she was saying like, she says this often, like, oh, it's just so much, like queer people are just so much better.

[01:01:13] Um, and I think what, like, I'm not queer and so I'm on the outside of that, but what my, I'll say my jealousy, maybe like I'm using air quotes, but I don't know really what I mean by that. But like, I get it because when I see people being queer, I am so obsessed with that. Like, I'm just like, yeah, it's so beautiful to see people just being like their own selves and against the grain.

[01:01:42] Like against the conditioning. Against the conditioning. That's the word. Yeah. And I like to think of queerness as. Like, uh, like the way Glennon said it, and I like to think of it this way, is like, it's like you can queer anything. You can queer any part of your life. Like queerness is just like living most authentically you.

[01:02:01] Yeah. And this is a straight from a, I'm straight, so like, I can't, like, I, I'm not queer so I can't be that. But it's really beautiful to, and that's why I think you say like, oh, I hope they're gay or I hope they're queer. Yeah. Is like, cuz it's so fucking beautiful. Um, to see people and queer people do it the best I think is just going against the conditioning that is keeps us shit, keeps us small, keeps us.

[01:02:30] Abused keeps us, blah. Like, just keeps us, yeah. Blah. Um, yeah, so that's what I was gonna say about the, about the queerness. So like, if my kids were queer, I would be fucking su super celebratory. And if they're not, I'd also be super celebratory because, you know, living the authentic version of yourself, whatever that looks like, whoever that is.

[01:02:51] Yeah. Whatever that is. I am like so there for it. Yeah. I think back, like ultimately I just want the kids, well, I mean, I want everybody, but like the kids in my life that I have some impact on, like, I just want you to be a happy, healthy, contributing member of society. Mm-hmm. , but like, that has no, that like, literally you being married or not has nothing to do with it.

[01:03:14] Mm-hmm. you having kids or not having, has nothing to do with it. You like going to college and becoming a lawyer has nothing to do with it, but like, are you a kind human? Working to make this world a better place. Mm-hmm. , everything else like that. Like, I hope you're happy and if marriage is what you want, then I hope you find somebody to marry.

[01:03:33] But like, also, if you don't wanna get married, don't like I, and I, you know, I just think often, like, you know, if I think of myself as a kid, if the focus was on me being a happy, healthy, contributing member of society, you know, I think a lot of things would've been different in my life. And so I just kind of looked through that lens of like, yeah, like I there, you know, like throw away this straight agenda.

[01:03:59] Everyone talks about the gay agenda, but Yes. Yeah. Like I can't help but wonder, oh, and there is like, there is a straight agenda because that's what keeps. Straight people on top. You know what I mean? Like that's like straight white men . Yes, exactly. Have rode white men on top. That's right. And like, that's the patriarchy.

[01:04:19] Like I, like I am married to a white, heterosexual cis man. Like I, my father is that as well. And I, and I have friends with white male partners that I, I love and adore. Like, this is not about that. It's about the system. The system. Mm-hmm. that keeps it imbalanced is the problem. And that's what I mean, like, the people who are in the system that are benefiting from it have to help rebalance it.

[01:04:50] Yeah. It's the only way. Um, and so I see that as my job too. Like, uh, like I, I kind of like to think of myself as a wannabe ally. Like I don't even know if I can say that I'm an ally because like I will only truly be able to. See myself as an ally when I know that I've made a difference in the balance.

[01:05:08] When I know that I've done like as a white middle class woman, done as much as I can to bring balance to the system cuz I'm benefiting it. But I think you are in how you're parenting and so thank you. That's exactly what I was just gonna say. I'm like my weight is how I raise my kids and I will, I will be able to like when I'm old and gray, well I'm already gray but old or um, I will be able to see them and not that their actions are me, no, but I will be able to know that I'm a real ally by how I act with them because that is the true test to me, is how I act with my kids will be the true test of my allyship cuz they are.

[01:05:51] My everything. They're everything to me. Mm-hmm. . So how I raise them and how I set them free into the world, not what they do with it, that's their own thing. But how I contribute will be how I digest. Whether I am truly an ally. Cuz I want to be like, I really want to be. Yeah. And we'll do whatever I can to be that, but I'm also benefiting from the system.

[01:06:16] So like I have to, I can't stop benefiting from it. Like, I'll never be able to take that off. Like I'll never, and that's my part of it. Like that's mm-hmm. , I guess the lesson that I'm learning as being an ally is like, you can't take off that benefit. You just have to try to rebalance it. And sometimes that means losing that benefit and that's okay.

[01:06:37] And that's part of it. That's part of the, the. And that's like the, well, I was gonna say, and I feel like maybe all straight ci white men should have to spend a day wearing pants with no pockets. , like, maybe that's like the new thing that it, so friends who are, um, cis white, uh, males identifying human beings, please do, um, acquire Yeah.

[01:07:03] Just for day, just for one day. And then try to put your phone fucking in there. Watch it fall on the ground 7,000 times. And, uh, yeah. Tell us, tell us how it goes. Yeah. Tell us how it goes. I, I feel like that's like a fundraiser. We need to, like, all these men will pay to like, wear pants with no pockets. Oh, let's do it.

[01:07:22] But like, I think that's what it is. And like, I think it's, you know, it is these like straight white men that need to. Be willing, well, I'm gonna butcher it, but there's that like drawer, there's a cartoon that talks about the difference between equality and equity. Yes, yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And so like, equality is not everybody looking over the fence, standing on the same thing.

[01:07:47] But ev you know, it's, I'm gonna butcher it, you know, put it in the Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll put it in the shot. I'll put it. Is it the picture? I can't, but it is a picture and it's like equality. Is everybody getting the box that they need to see over the fence? Yeah. That's what equality is. Um, and that's what we need.

[01:08:06] That's what we really need. Is everyone getting the same, the, not the same box, but the box they really need. Yes. To be over the page to be on the same page. Yeah. Yeah. Um, or, and maybe I just butchered it too, but that's the point, is that whatever, whatever it is, is that we need to give everybody the box they need as opposed to everyone getting the same box.

[01:08:28] That's a different thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We said so many things in our time today. I know we said we didn't even know where this, we not know, and I just don't want it to stop. But it's got to because the listeners don't wanna listen for us too long. They really, they really don't. They're like, okay, I need to move on to the next podcast.

[01:08:45] Yeah. Um, Carlene, what happened in our time today? What was our conversation like for you? Oh God. Like, I just wanna have these conversations every day, you know, with people who are open to also asking questions and pondering, you know, thoughts I like, I don't know at all. And I, you know, I just sort of navigate this world asking questions and seeing where I best can contribute and hold space and yeah.

[01:09:12] Thanks for listening. That's what we did. That's what we did. Yeah. We chatted. Um, and for me, I really feel. Inspired by your tenacity and just sticktuitiveness that you have is, it's just so beautiful and you're doing such wonderful things with the podcast, with the work you do as a stepmom too. And thank you just generally as a really rad human being.

[01:09:36] So I'm really grateful that you're here and you're doing it and for all the topics we talked about. Um, yeah. I'm just so, so in awe of what you bring to the table and I'm, I'm just very grateful. Is there any final words you wanna give to the listeners before we sign off? No, just, I wanna thank you for inviting me on.

[01:09:56] I think it's such an honor. You know, I think the work that you do is incredible and, you know, the perspective you can take on things is really valuable and I just love your podcast and your voice is made for it. I love it so much. Oh, thank you. Dito. Yeah, Dito. Thank you. Aw, thank you dear Listeners. Um, You know, you got a treat in our time and go subscribe to Car Length's Podcast.

[01:10:23] Um, I did not sign up for this because it is so good and you don't have to go start from the beginning, like 155 episodes a lot. Um, I even tell people, maybe don't start from like, our sound quality was . We all learn at the beginning, right? Like, y'all, like episode one for me wasn't the best either, but, um, go like, go look at the list, um, and find one that kind of speaks to you.

[01:10:45] Click on it, listen to it, and go from there. It's, it's really a beautiful treat. Um, I really, and if you have a story, reach out. Oh, thank you. Thank you for saying that. If you have a story that you did not sign up for, please do hit up by friend Carlin and she will get back to you and interview you on the podcast.

[01:11:02] And you're gonna help people. You're gonna share your unique beauty and. And destructive crap that also happened. And that's all relatable. That's all relatable. We all, we wanna hear it. So, um, hit Carling up and I will link all of this in the show notes. So no need to go on the Google machine. You can just scroll down and click and you will find I did not sign up for this.

[01:11:24] You will find Carling and I am so grateful. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you so much. We'll see you again soon. Bye. Thank you so much for being here and listening to this episode. I love having you and sharing these stories with you is just giving me life. If you like the podcast, please go find positively charged wherever you get your podcast.

[01:11:48] Rate Review Center friend, like, share, follow me on Instagram, check out my website. Your support means everything to me. Thank you so much for being here and can't wait to see you again soon.