Episode 5 - Photography, Loss and Storytelling with Carley Rupert
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:01] LA: Hello, everyone. Before we dive into this episode of Positively Charged, with myself, Lindsay Austin, and my beautiful guest, Carley Rupert, I do want to warn listeners of a trigger warning in this episode. We do talk about some heavier topics such as pregnancy loss and some other related fertility challenges and issues of that type. So this episode could be triggering for those who are going through fertility struggles or have had pregnancy loss or infant loss in their lives.
And I will also say that my sister, Carley, will share a beautiful story about her loss and how it has changed her and how she's honouring that legacy. So if it feels like a safe space for you to listen safely, please do continue on. If you maybe need to guard your heart a little bit and skip this episode, that's absolutely open to you. I welcome you to follow your gut, follow your heart, and make the choice that makes sense for you.
As always, thank you for tuning in. And let's dive in with Carley.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:01:20] LA: Welcome, welcome to another episode of Positively Charged with myself, Lindsay Austin. I am your host. I am joined today by one of my favourite people, one of the best people you'll ever know, and just the most incredible human being that you would ever meet. And she's gushing. She's over there gushing right now. She might cry. No, she's not going to cry. She might. And that is my sister, my beautiful younger sister, Carley Rupert. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:51] CR: Hi. Hello.
[00:01:54] LA: I'm so happy you're here.
[00:01:55] CR: Me too.
[00:01:56] LA: I feel like we've tried to record this multiple times already, which is quite a hilarious, ridiculous thing, because we see each other so often, and yet we don't just make time to sit in quiet and record the beautiful musings that we come up with.
[00:02:11] CR: Yes, that's true. Usually there's kids running around, and dogs running around, and husbands running around.
[00:02:18] LA: Yeah. Parents running.
[00:02:20] CR: Everyone's running around. Yeah.
[00:02:21] LA: Yeah. Yeah, and that's true. There's usually a full house of just craziness happening. And the kids are sleeping. The dogs are here. If you hear some barking, that's them. But hopefully they'll just lunch out and chill out, and we'll be good to go.
[00:02:36] CR: Yeah, we'll see.
[00:02:38] LA: We'll see.
[00:02:38] CR: Lily's here. So you'll likely hear.
[00:02:42] LA: Yeah. And that's your little shelty dog, Lily. And then I have Bella and Jake. I don't know if I’ve introduced them on the podcast yet. But they are not far from anything.
So sister, I’ve wanted to do this from the very beginning. I said when I started the podcast you would be one of my first guests.
[00:03:00] CR: Yes. I’ve been super excited. Super nervous. I feel like I’m in an interview.
[00:03:04] LA: Yeah. But you're not. You're not really – Well, maybe a little bit. But we're just having a conversation that's recorded, which is kind of like an interview in some ways.
[00:03:13] CR: Yeah.
[00:03:14] LA: We've tried to record a couple times. We were clinking on Instagram even. We had a little like pink champagne clink. We're going to record the podcast with Lynnwood Photography, which you'll tell us more about. And we just ended up drinking that wine and –
[00:03:29] CR: What did we do?
[00:03:30] LA: I don't know. Time got away from us or something.
[00:03:33] CR: That's why you should really clink after.
[00:03:35] LA: Yeah, clink after. Yeah, exactly. We're like, "Oh! We'll do it tomorrow," and then didn't. And then you tried to come over in the middle of the day once on your lunch hour.
[00:03:46] CR: And then what happened there?
[00:03:47] LA: No. We were chatting. And we didn't have enough time. You had to go back to work.
[00:03:51] CR: Right.
[00:03:51] LA: That was a silly idea. That was actually not the best idea. A wishful thinking yeah we're trying to be efficient. But of course, we weren't. But I’m so excited for this conversation because, as I said, you're my favourite in the whole world.
[00:04:03] CR: You're my favourite.
[00:04:06] LA: And I want to share you with the world because I get you all to myself. Our family gets you all to ourselves. So I want to share your splenda with the world, the world much. Are you ready?
[00:04:20] CR: Yes, I am ready. Yeah.
[00:04:23] LA: so do you want to just start by telling us a bit about yourself and just why you think I invited you here?
[00:04:30] CR: Oh, goodness. What is to say? I don't even know where to start. Well, let's see. I was born in Calgary.
[00:04:36] LA: Me too.
[00:04:37] CR: No shit? Can we swear?
[00:04:39] LA: Yeah.
[00:04:41] CR: I don't know if you're going to bleep it out. I am the middle of three sisters.
[00:04:48] LA: We'll have to get the younger sister on the podcast at some point.
[00:04:50] CR: Yeah, we're going to definitely have to do that.
[00:04:51] LA: All three of us together. It would be hilarious. Three sisters, one mind.
[00:04:57] CR: Yeah, totally. But yeah, I work at oil and gas. And I’ve been doing photography on and off for years and years. And recently started doing it as not a career, but kind of like a side hustle. I’ve been wanting to do it for a long time. It's just something I’m very passionate about. And I feel very strongly about people getting photos done. I think it's very important to capture your legacy. And I also feel very strongly about making sure that it's attainable for everybody, because I know that there are a lot of photographers out there, amazing photographers, whose their price range is definitely out of reach for some people. Even me, sometimes, I’ve been thinking about getting like couples photos with Chris, my husband. And then we're like, "Oh, like we'll wait for a sale," or something. But really, like, priceless once you get them done. They are so important. You don't regret what you pay for them. They're just amazing.
[00:05:55] LA: Never. Yeah, you never regret photography. I’ve thought that so many times. I’ve just been lucky that you've taken all of my photos. And you've been photographing me in my family for a long time.
[00:06:08] CR: Yeah. Since Everly, I guess.
[00:06:10] LA: Yeah. Yeah, I guess, since Everly was born. And we didn't really need photos before that.
[00:06:14] CR: Yeah, absolutely. Before that, you're kind of like, "Oh, whatever. A selfie will do. Someone will take a picture of me at this event."
[00:06:20] LA: Yes, that's right. Like, that's not enough. That's not enough. Like there's a huge gap having like really good quality photos of the parts of your life that you want to remember but just aren't super important in that moment.
[00:06:36] CR: Oh, yes, for sure.
[00:06:38] LA: Like different phases of your – Even just partnership with your romantic partner. And like I want to do photos with our mom.
[00:06:45] CR: Yes. And we talked about doing that for mama minis.
[00:06:48] LA: Yeah. And that's when we had Covid the first time.
[00:06:51] CR: Yes, that's right.
[00:06:52] LA: Yeah. So I didn't get my mama mini. I didn't get my mama mini.
[00:06:56] CR: I’m definitely going to do mama minis again this year. It was such a hit. And it's just so fun to have –
[00:07:02] LA: Tell us what mama minis are.
[00:07:04] CR: So mama minis are just a mini photo session. They're about 15 to 30 minutes with the mom and her children. And yeah, typically, it's outside. Last year, it was beautiful out during Mother's Day. So it was perfect. It was super sunny. We did it in the morning. And yeah, you just show up, and we take – They're super easy. You just show up 15 minutes, 30 minutes and you're done. So it's not a huge time commitment. And with children, especially younger little ones, it's very, very, very hard to keep them engaged. Either they don't want to be in front of the camera or they don't understand what's going on. Some of them are great. There are some kids who are just like amazing.
[00:07:48] LA: Yeah. You wonder like how they got to like be so chill in front of the camera. For sure.
[00:07:53] CR: Yeah. Because I’m definitely not. Absolutely not. I’m like, "What? How do I smile? Where do I look? How do I pose." Like, it's very –
[00:07:59] LA: It's funny, because the pictures you get of Everly are like so good. And she's such a hot mess like during the photo session. She's always a hot mess.
[00:08:06] CR: Yeah. It's because it's auntie taking her photos, right? She's like, "What are you doing?"
[00:08:12] LA: Maybe. Maybe that's why. So why photography? Like, what is it about photography that draws you in? And what is the difference between you and other photographers?
[00:08:22] CR: Honestly, ever since before I can remember, I have loved taking photos. I remember I had this little toy camera when I was a kid. And I remember getting like those disposable cameras. Like mom would buy them. And I would just take photos. And I love the film aspect. I love like waiting and getting them. And obviously, film isn't really a thing anymore. But I love taking photos.
And I remember taking a photo shoot of Jodi when we were young. Like, I think I was 13. I was like, "Let's go to the backyard. Let's take some cool photos." And then we ended up going to the park. And it was so much fun. And you know Jodi. She's like a model.
[00:08:57] LA: Yeah, she is the model. Yeah.
[00:08:58] CR: So it was not hard. Yeah, it was not hard at all.
[00:09:01] LA: It's harder to do me.
[00:09:03] CR: Yeah.
[00:09:05] LA: I’m not so much of a model.
[00:09:07] CR: Oh, you are. Like, whenever I take a picture of you and you're laughing, I’m like, "I can hear it." And you're always just so fun and easy going and – Ugh! The best. The best.
[00:09:22] LA: That's because auntie is doing it.
[00:09:23] CR: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve just always loved taking photos. And like, of course, with Chris and I especially, like we have no photos together. Like I recently found all my old digital photos from like 10 years, 15 years ago, and there's like 20 of us, 25 maybe.
[00:09:42] LA: That's not enough.
[00:09:43] CR: No. And I’m like they're all from so long ago. It's like, "Oh my gosh." So I’m guilty of not taking photos too. But I don't know. I love capturing families. And they're so adorable and beautiful, and their children. And especially when you photograph a family where the kids are one, and then all of a sudden they're two, and then they're three, and then they're four. And you're literally watching them grow up. And it's just amazing.
[00:10:10] LA: It is.
[00:10:11] CR: I don't know how to explain it. It's just you're following along with this journey that they're on, and you watch them grow into human beings, and thinking, speaking. They have their own opinions.
[00:10:23] LA: So much transformation.
[00:10:24] CR: So much transformation.
[00:10:26] LA: That is such a beautiful thing that photographers get to witness is the transformation.
[00:10:30] CR: Oh, it's magical. It really is. Like, I took photos of Sam when he and his wife had their baby. I took photos of them when Emily was – Oh gosh! Like under a year. Either under or just over. And then I took photos in the fall, and she's like a little adult.
[00:10:51] LA: Completely different. Yes.
[00:10:52] CR: Absolutely. And it's just like, "Holy crap!" Like, it's so cool. So I’ve always just had a passion for capturing those special moments, the sentimental. And I don't know. And you, obviously, you know, you're the one who's been like, "You just need to pull the trigger. Do it. Do it. Like, I’ve been talking about this for years." And I don't know. I just love providing that type of joy to families. I think it's just – I love being a part of a little piece of their journey. It's just so awesome.
[00:11:19] LA: Yeah. That's so rewarding. And I see the passion in your face when you talk about it.
[00:11:23] CR: Yeah, totally. And it's so fun. And it's the best.
[00:11:27] LA: So if you could summarize what you offer your clients that's different from other photographers, what would you say?
[00:11:35] CR: Oh, gosh. It's hard, because, honestly, I haven't had a lot of experience with other photographers. So I can't really –
[00:11:41] LA: Right, right. You haven't hired a photographer.
[00:11:44] CR: Yes. So I’m not entirely sure. But what I do try to offer is, like I said, attainable photography. I try to keep my prices relatively low. I also try to keep the sessions relatively short, because I’m an over-shooter. Like there are photographers – Every photographer has their own method. And I definitely overshoot for a couple reasons. Number one, I want to make sure I’m capturing the moments properly. And number two, it's just my – I’m just so trigger happy, my finger can't stop. I’m like, "Yes, yes, yes. Keep going. Yes."
[00:12:15] LA: Everything feels like a special.
[00:12:17] CR: Yes, yes. It's very rewarding. And I try to offer options as well, like, in home, or outside, or – Well, there isn't really a lot of space to go inside now. Now that Covid is over, it'll be easier to book spaces and whatnot. But I don't know. I try to just be chill, easy going. Most families I photograph were very easy going, which is awesome. I haven't experienced a family that's been hard to take. Everyone is super, super relaxed. And we just kind of go with the flow, go with the jive. And sometimes –
[00:12:54] LA: It's like lifestyle photography, right? Like it's like natural, not super posed, but a little bit of posing.
[00:12:59] CR: Yeah. When I first started, I definitely had more posing-esque photoshoots. But now it's kind of like, "Hey, let's just walk." Or I’ll say, "Okay, you guys just sit down on the blanket and just have a conversation. Just tickle each other and whisper in your ears. And tell me about a vacation you're going on soon. Or tell me what you're excited most about during the summer," kind of thing. And you just kind of go from there. And it's very authentic. And like I said, organic and easy going. And, yes. And like I said, attainable is very important to me, because I feel that everyone deserves to get these photos done. And it's, I don't want to say, like a right. But I feel like it is almost. Like I feel like everyone should be able to do it. And I just think it's so important. And with our family, we didn't take a lot of family photos at all. Like, I think I remember twice.
[00:13:52] LA: Yeah, I think I can remember one time.
[00:13:54] CR: Our mom used to have like – I don't know she still does, but like a box of photos. I remember going through them all the time being like, "Oh, I remember – I kind of remember this." But they were just like candid shots. What would you call that feeling? I don't know it's like nostalgia? Very nostalgic. And I don't know, it's like just back to the past kind of thing.
And I remember those moments, most of them we were very little, but I do remember being with grandma on her island and family vacations. Like, we only had the one that we did every year. I don't know. Just even looking back and being like, "I remember that outfit and those shoes."
[00:14:33] LA: And it brings up that memory, that like core memory of a happy time of a joyous occasion of something you just never want to forget.
[00:14:41] CR: Absolutely. And I would never remember that if I didn't have the photos.
[00:14:45] LA: Well, I know for me, it's always been so important to capture the different moments of the family and the different milestones. Like as soon as we had Everly, it became so much more important. And I really do cherish those memories. And the documentation of those memories just makes this even better. Like just makes it even more concrete.
And, like, photography is like such a wonderful gift as well. Like, I know I’ve given your services to a couple people. It's just such a great offering. Like what you do, what photographers do, is just so special. And I think it's understated. I think it is understated. And that's why they're so expensive, really, is because it is so special what they're offering. And it's really amazing that your offering is more accessible, more attainable than maybe some of your colleagues who shoot just as well as you do. You shoot just as well as they do. But you're just that slightly bit more accessible, which I think is just such a nice reality, such a nice truth.
[00:15:54] CR: Absolutely. Oh you said something. I’ve lost it. It is very important. And yes, like, capturing those milestones. Especially when someone else is taking them, you're more likely to hang them up on your walls. Then obviously you're not going to take all these selfies and then just post them. Some people do, of course. But I feel, for the most part, people just take pictures and they stay on their phones and then they kind of carry away into the abyss and you never really see them again unless you're looking for something else or you're scrolling through. So definitely feels good to – Like, I’ve gone to clients' homes and seen my photos on their walls. I'm like, "Oh my gosh. This is so nice."
[00:16:41] LA: So special.
[00:16:42] CR: It feels so good. Yeah.
[00:16:43] LA: Yeah. It's just you can't put words to it. It's an image. It speaks so much more.
[00:16:49] CR: Oh, absolutely. And that's what – Like some photographers, like I said, they are a little more expensive. But it's artwork. What they do is a work of art, like capturing photos, capturing people, and then editing them. It's a huge process, too. Like it's not as simple as point and click and then here's your photos. It's like culling takes hours, and editing takes hours.
[00:17:11] LA: What is calling?
[00:17:12] CR: Sorry. Culling is going through the photos and picking the ones that are good and getting rid of the ones that are blurry, or cropped weird, or if you have someone smiling weird, or someone's blinking.
[00:17:22] LA: Yeah. Or the moment isn't – Yeah, blinking, right? Exactly. And then what did you say comes after culling?
[00:17:28] CR: Is editing. Editing the exposure and the shadows. And again, like, cropping and rotating properly. And there's a bunch of steps that go into that, too. And it does take time. That's definitely the bulk of the time that it does take with photos, like taking photos of people. It's pointing and shooting, yes, the session, like however long it takes the session, whether it's 30 minutes or an hour, two hours. Times that by about, for me, anyway, to do the editing. It takes a while.
[00:17:57] LA: Wow! That is a while.
[00:17:58] CR: Yeah. And I remember when I did my first the mama minis. That was my first mini session. And I was like, "Oh, well, it's only minutes. So, likely, editing won't take too long." Yeah, it took like almost two hours.
[00:18:13] LA: Oh my God!
[00:18:13] CR: Yeah. But it's – I'm really excited. Every session is different.
[00:18:17] LA: And lighting probably makes a difference.
[00:18:19] CR: Lighting definitely makes a difference. Yes, for sure.
[00:18:22] LA: Oh, that's so awesome. Thank you for –
[00:18:23] CR: Yeah, it's super fun. Like, I know some photographers, editing isn't their favorite part. But I love the editing process.
[00:18:30] LA: I can just imagine like how satisfying it must be to like see what you shot and then enhance it. I’m using air quotes. Or like make it the best it can be by using the technology that you have access to. It's just so awesome.
[00:18:47] CR: It is so awesome. Like I said, it is a form of art. When I worked at Blacks photography – Well, I was a lab tech. Like, we only really color corrected images from film. And it wasn't a ton of color correcting. It was basically like evening out the tones. Like if a picture was super blue, we'd turn up like the warmer tones, vice versa. If it's warm, and like too warm, too orangey, you would just turn up the colder tones. And I loved doing that. I just loved it. I was like, "Oh, this is so much fun."
And now you don't really do a lot of film these days. And Blacks Photography does not exist anymore. And actually, I don't even know like where people do the film these days. And maybe –
[00:19:30] LA: I’m sure there's places you could get it developed. But that's fantastic. So what I intended on asking you right at the beginning, which I didn't, which I’m trying to ask all of my guests, is what is it like when you, Carley, stand in your power? How would you describe your power and what it's like when you're standing inside of it?
[00:19:50] CR: It's a good question. And it's a hard question, because I feel, for me anyways, you don't even really know you're standing in your power when you are. Like, for me, it's, I don't know, kind of like camouflage. I feel my authentic self. I feel like I can be open and honest with my feelings, and my thoughts, and my beliefs, and values to the people around me, which I think is very important. And there were times where I was around certain people where I could not do that. And I could tell – You got that vibe where I was afraid to say something, because I either was going to offend someone, or it was too dark, or it was not in keeping with the tone. You know what I mean? I feel that when I’m in my power, I’m just being authentically me. I don't have to hide behind anything. I can say what I feel. It's, I want to say, empowering, and just feels easy, and light, and comfortable. And even when you're uncomfortable, you still feel safe in that space that you've created with other people.
[00:21:00] LA: Yeah, I just heard you say. When you're at your most powerful self, when your power is illuminated, you feel safe, and you feel connected as well as what I heard.
[00:21:09] CR: Yes. And, I don't know, there are times – I don't know if you've ever had this. I’m sure you have. But where you're saying something and you can just tell that what you're saying isn't being received the way you expected it to be. Or like there's a negative connotation towards it. Or you feel the other person's uncomfortableness and they don't know what to do or say. I don't know I think it depends on who you're hanging out with. Like, I’ve definitely been more attuned to who makes me feel good and who maybe doesn't make me feel so safe.
[00:21:42] LA: Yeah. That safety concept, again, I think is really a key ingredient for you. It's feeling safe. You can really step into the – Almost, like, I’m picturing like a spotlight. Like you can step into the spotlight when you're feeling safe.
[00:21:59] CR: Yes. And, oh gosh! There were years where communication, it was so hard for me. Like, growing up in a household where maybe we didn't talk about our feelings so much, where I felt like if I did it was not welcomed, but just not –
[00:22:16] LA: Just didn't happen. You weren't seeing it happening. And I think, in our family – I’m not prescribing this to you, but like you were definitely a sensitive person in regards to like our family dynamic. If there was a sensitive one, I probably would have said it was you.
[00:22:33] CR: Still am.
[00:22:33] LA: Still am. And we love it. But that probably lends to what you're saying is like when you have feelings and you're not feeling 100% safe to express them, then you can't fully step into yourself. You can't fully be yourself.
[00:22:50] CR: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:22:52] LA: So when you are fully in your power and you're in that spotlight and that safety is clear and evident, who are you there? What do you act like? What's your unique genius? What do you bring to the world?
[00:23:08] CR: That's hard. I don't even know. I’m very supportive. And I’m able to support my friends and I’m able to support myself. And when I am authentically living in my truth, I feel I am just a better person. I’m easier to connect with. I’m easier – Like I’m more honest and open. And that's something I’ve struggled with my entire life, is openness. I’ve always been not secrets. But don't tell people you're upset. Don't tell people this. Don't tell people that.
[00:23:39] LA: Almost I’m hearing you say like I have restraint.
[00:23:42] CR: Yes. Restraint. Yeah, I’ve restrained a lot, a lot. Not so much anymore. Definitely, I think once I reached 30 years old, it was kind of like, "What's the point? Why am I refraining from telling the people I love that I love them and telling people I don't like that? Because I'm I think maybe a little bit of people pleaser in there where I don't want to upset anyone. And I kind of like – What's the word?
[00:24:15] LA: It sounds like kind of like keeping the peace a little bit. Like keeping things neutral.
[00:24:20] CR: Yeah. And I feel like I was betraying myself if I didn't say anything. But at the same time, if I said something, I didn't want to hurt someone's feelings even if I didn't mean to. Very much that.
[00:24:30] LA: So how has your life changed since you've decided to stop betraying yourself in those important moments?
[00:24:36] CR: I think just taking a step back and realizing I don't feel safe and I don't feel – Like if I say something that it's going to be received well and given back to me well. So I think it's a lot of choosing who I give my time to. A lot of that. And saying no to conversations I don't want to have. Like I would always just have those conversations I was uncomfortable with because I didn't want to make someone else uncomfortable. And just kind of – Yeah, like, I guess like you said, kind of trying to keep the peace. Yeah.
[00:25:13] LA: Yeah, keep the peace and kind of restrain your own feelings, your own – That's Billy coughing on the monitor. This is a hilarious podcast.
[00:25:23] CR: Yeah.
[00:25:25] LA: We know what we're doing. Yeah, we know what we're doing here. So if you could describe yourself in a word, what is that word?
[00:25:37] CR: Caring.
[00:25:40] LA: You can break the rules. You can have more than one word.
[00:25:44] CR: It's so hard to self-evaluate like this. Because, yeah, how do you just have one word? It's hard. Sure, let's go with caring.
[00:25:53] LA: Caring.
[00:25:54] CR: Yeah.
[00:25:56] LA: That's your essence. It's how you show up in the world.
[00:25:57] CR: Yeah, I care a lot.
[00:25:59] LA: You do care a lot, and I benefit directly from that. So grateful for that. So you talked just a bit about photography, a bit about you. And I’m hoping that we can switch gears to maybe a bit of a harder topic, a really important topic. You've recently had a pregnancy loss, the second pregnancy loss that you've encountered. And it's very heartbreaking. Obviously, I’m attuned personally to what went on and what has gone on. And I’m just wondering if you want to share your story and the story of your daughter.
[00:26:40] CR: Yes, absolutely. So my husband and I found out that we were pregnant in October with our second child. And we were very excited. We've been struggling with fertility for – It'll be four years in May. So, a while. And we suffered a loss last October. So it was hard, definitely. And we eventually referred to a fertility clinic. And that was also very hard. And so many things that you just don't even know about until you're in the thick of it.
Yeah, we were referred to the fertility clinic. And we're put on meds. And we were on meds for about six months. And then we found out we were pregnant. And we were so excited and nervous. Like, pregnancy after loss is a whole other bag of snakes. Like it's very – Lots of emotions. You're excited. You're worried. You're happy. You're scared. You're nervous. There's so many things. But in the moment, I remember just being shocked. Like, "Oh my gosh! It happened." Because, like I said, it's been a long journey.
And yeah, so we found out we were pregnant. And I think we had three ultrasounds in total with Holly, because I was pretty early, because we've been – Maybe people don't know. But once when you're on fertility drugs, there's lots of blood work. There's lots of day counting. There's just a ton of things that you have to keep track of. And so I knew around the time to check, like to take a pregnancy test. And I think we were four days early. And Chris was downstairs working. And I think I was off work. And I was just sitting there and I was like, "Five more days. And it was hard." Like, waiting is so hard. And definitely, there's so much waiting involved in fertility journeys, it's crazy. It can make you crazy.
[00:28:39] LA: It's a speed up to wait kind of situation.
[00:28:42] CR: Absolutely, yes. It is crazy. So I couldn't wait. So I took the test. And I could not believe it, because I can't count how many pregnancy tests I’ve taken. Literally, could not count. So I scream, "Christopher!" And he's like, "Oh, shit. She fell. Something happened." And he runs up the stairs, and I’m like, "Oh my God. I’m pregnant." And he's like, "Oh!" Because he definitely thought I like broke my neck or something. But I just could not –
[00:29:14] LA: He's double happy.
[00:29:15] CR: Double happy. Yeah. I’m not dead, and pregnant. So that was super exciting. And we had our first ultrasound. And I’ll never forget, because with our first pregnancy, they just labeled the little blob as a yolk sac. And with Holly, they labeled her baby. And I just could not believe it. She was just this little tiny blob. It was the coolest thing. I loved it. It was amazing.
So we were kind of just waiting to tell people. It had been – Oh gosh! So many emotions, and so many people who have been following us along on our journey. And it's like, "Oh, how do I lie to these people when they're asking?" Like, "Oh, how's it going?" It's like, "Uh." Like, I’m not good at lying. Like you can tell easily. So I’m like, "Oh my God! I just hope people don't ask, because we're just waiting until we can get to the third trimester." And once we did, like it felt so good. We're like, "Oh my God!" Like, past the first trimester. Yeah, we're past first trimester, yeah. It was just the happiest day. I could not believe it.
Those three months just felt like an eternity. I was feeling pretty good. Not too much morning sickness. Super thirsty. And just pumped, excited. And we had our third ultrasound. She was – When was that? I think it was 12 weeks, four days or something. And that's when we found out that, unfortunately, our baby had some health complications. And we didn't know exactly the extent at the time. Well, we did, but we didn't understand what the doctors were talking about. So we had our ultrasound. It was a magical ultrasound, to be honest. Like, we had no idea something was wrong. Our baby was moving around everywhere. And she was bouncing from here to there. And her hands were up. Her legs were up. She was just like on one side of my uterus, then the other side. It was very cool.
And, unfortunately, when we were brought into the little consult room they told us that her little organs were on the outside of her body. So it was pretty significant, they said. But again, we didn't really understand what that meant at the time. And they kind of gave us all the information. And we just left, because it was just a very hard day.
So we went home and had a bunch of doctor's appointments. And I won't really get into the details. But we did end up having to have a termination for medical reasons, which is similar to like a DNE or a DNC. like a medical procedure. And yeah, so that happened. Holly was born on December 15th, 2021. Yeah, that's pretty much the gist. We're still waiting on some test results. Like, again, there's just so much waiting involved. But, yeah, it's been a long, hard road. And losing Holly was definitely, definitely hard for Chris and I, and our whole family. Like, it was a struggle for everybody. We were so excited that we were finally pregnant again. And just having that let down. And we were so hopeful this time around because, like I said, all our ultrasounds, until we had a talk with our doctors, was perfect. Like she looked perfect. You never would have – I don't know how those ultrasound doctors do what they do and the technicians. Like, how they see things.
[00:32:48] LA: It's pretty remarkable.
[00:32:50] CR: It is very remarkable, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that's Holly's story. She was 13 weeks, three days when she was born.
[00:32:59] LA: Little baby Holly.
[00:33:02] CR: Yeah. Yeah, we named her Holly. Well, first we had no idea what we were going to name her. I always thought that we were going to have a boy.
[00:33:08] LA: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I remember you saying. It was so surprising, a little girl.
[00:33:12] CR: So surprised. Like, even before Chris and I were trying, we're like, "It's definitely a boy." Even before we were pregnant, we're like, "Yeah, it's a boy." So it was very surprising to find out that we're having a girl.
[00:33:26] LA: And what is her legacy impressed on you? What is that feeling?
[00:33:30] CR: Oh, just – I don't know. There's so much stigma around loss. And it's very heartbreaking. Once you experience it – Like, before we experienced it, I had no idea that miscarriages were so common, and that there's so many women struggling with fertility and all that stuff. Like, it was definitely an eye-opener. And since we had Holly, I’ve been more open about talking about her. And I think it's important to share her story and be there for other people who are maybe struggling.
Like, I know, we've helped a couple people even just sharing Holly. So I think it's –
[00:34:08] LA: Yeah, how have you helped them?
[00:34:08] CR: Oh, just I’ve had a couple people reach out saying that they had recent losses. And with our first miscarriage, I become really close with Chris's cousin, who also suffered a loss. And it's one of the best relationships I have. Like, you don't want to say it happens for a reason, because I don't believe that at all. They're very toxic thing to say. But at the same time, like, that miscarriage brought on this amazing relationship that I honestly likely never would have had. So there is some light.
[00:34:43] LA: There's, I almost want to say, like a happy consequence. Like, there's many other consequences that are not. And what you might be saying is that there's maybe a little happy consequence that came with along with all of that.
[00:34:56] CR: Absolutely. Yes. And even like talking to you, like, I don't know what I would do without you. And there's just so many people who've helped us, Chris and I both. And I don't want women to feel like they have to go through this alone. It's just we felt that way with our first loss. And not so much alone with family and friends, but more so with like the medical side. Like, we didn't have the support of our doctors. It was very traumatic, very unsafe space. Got a new doctor as soon as we could.
There's just so many things that kind of can go along with infertility and even just loss that I just can't imagine someone having to go through it alone. And it's not fair. It's not right. And no one should have to go through it alone.
[00:35:44] LA: Yeah. Like, why don't we talk about it, I guess, is the – It begs the question. And I can see that there's stigma. I can see that there's – I almost want to use the word like a perception of shame is what I’m picking up that you're saying. And that is so not fair.
[00:36:01] CR: Oh, absolutely. It's terrible some of the things that people say that they just don't realize. And there's some family members and friends who would stay to us, like, "Oh, are you trying? When are you going to have kids?" And it's like, "Oh my gosh. Like, we've been trying for three years." You know what I mean? Because it is such a heavy topic, it's sometimes can be difficult to bring up because it just brings up so many emotions. And it's not just a simple surface conversation. It's very deep. It's very personal. And it can be very emotional and hard to talk about. I do know a lot of women who just don't want to say anything because they don't want to burden anybody. But it's crazy. Like you are not a burden. Your baby is not a burden.
Like, I’ve heard people say that, depending on when you had your loss, that it wasn't even a loss. Like, your baby wasn't even a baby. It's just very, very toxic and terrible, and absolutely untrue. And it just hurts my heart so bad that people are told this. And then these women who are suffering believe this. Like, it's very –
[00:37:07] LA: Like, this isn't hard enough without some sort of untrue narrative.
[00:37:12] CR: Right. And some people's excuses is, "Oh, well, it's so common. Get over it." It's like, "What?" It's just I can't even believe the words that come out of some people's mouths. It's very sad.
[00:37:23] LA: So what would you share with a woman or a family going through this?
[00:37:29] CR: I would say that you are not alone. And thankfully, there are so many – There are more resources out there than there used to be. And I’m here for you. Like, if anyone ever wanted to reach out, like I absolutely would love to talk to you and be there for you and support you and just be someone, just a safe space. You don't want to talk. You just want to sit. It's hard.
And I’ve definitely lost some friendships over it because people don't want to talk about it and they can't be there for you. And it's very triggering to have to do that alone and feel like you are a burden. Because you absolutely are not a burden. And fertility is very hard for everybody, especially the woman going through it. It's very heavy.
[00:38:18] LA: Yeah, it is. And what I just heard you say is no one should ever have to be alone when navigating loss of any kind. And there are resources, professional resources available, which I’ll link in the show notes.
[00:38:33] CR: Yes, that'd be great.
[00:38:34] LA: The Pregnancy and Infant Loss Center. I will link them in the show notes. Aditi, who you've worked with her organization. I will link that in the show notes and a couple other resources that we've kind of come across. Avery's Legacy as well. Such a great cause.
[00:38:52] CR: Yeah, yeah. It just – I don't know. It just does suck that there's so much stigma around it that women feel like they have to do it alone. Losing your child is the hardest thing that I have ever had to go through the hardest and that Chris has ever had to go through. Like, it definitely has taken a toll, for sure, like on our feelings and our emotions. And we just don't expect – We were never taught in school that it could take so long. And that there's all these things that could come up. And it's just disheartening that there aren't more educational resources in school for people. But there are lots outside of the education system.
[00:39:38] LA: It's unfortunate. I think what you might be saying is it's unfortunate that it's only at the time of loss where you come into contact with these resources. Whereas if we talked more openly about this, then we might – Not prepare ourselves for it. Like, no. You could never prepare for the feelings and experiences that you're coming into. But you could have, what I thought the first time that I had a friend experienced loss, was how did I not know what to do in that moment? How did I not know what to say? And I had to go figure that out as a support person to that person.
I know, like we've talked about this before, where I wish there was just – Well, there is. There is. But I wish there was more conversation about how we can support people going through pregnancy loss, infant loss, and what those narratives could look like to be in support of them as supposed to this kind of like awkward, I don't know what to say, I don't know how to talk about it.
[00:40:36] CR: So I’m just not going to.
[00:40:37] LA: I’m just not going to. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's a real disservice to the family that's going through that loss.
[00:40:44] CR: Absolutely. And that's the thing. Everyone experiences loss differently. Like, grief is very complicated. It's not a straight line. And it varies from day-to-day. Like for me and Chris, it was one day I was okay, then the next day I just absolutely was not okay. And there's some women I know who are so resilient and just are so strong. And being strong doesn't mean getting over it. Being strong can be sitting in your feelings and reaching out when you need help. And strong is whatever you need it to be.
Yeah, there's this – I don't know. Rhetoric almost? That if you're not doing something, you're not helping someone. When, really, reaching out, saying, "I’m here for you. I don't know what you're going through. But I’m here to listen. I’m here to hold your hand. I’m here to bring you coffee. I’m here to bring you food. I’m here just to sit with you. I’ll light a candle for."
I know, like when we shared Holly's story, a number of people lit a candle for her that night. And it was just the most beautiful, amazing thing ever. Like, the nicest thing anyone could do is just light a candle and say, "I’m thinking of you, and thinking of Holly."
[00:41:53] LA: Yeah. You know, what I I’m sensing that you're saying is like talking about this very special person.
[00:41:59] CR: Yes.
[00:42:00] LA: This is your daughter. This is your child. And not talking about that very, very special person is painful.
[00:42:08] CR: Yes, it is. It's very painful. When I saw her, she was in my body, she was growing she was thriving. Like, even though she wouldn't have lived much longer, she was this little special human. Like I saw her fingers. I saw her toes. I saw her little nose and her bum. Like, oh my gosh! I remember pointing at the ultrasound saying, "Chris, that's her butt. Oh my God!" I love butts.
[00:42:34] LA: So that little Holly butt was a good butt. Yeah, it was a good butt. Yeah. I don't know. I just think it's so important to talk about it. And if you don't want to talk about it, that's okay too. That's absolutely whatever feels right for you.
[00:42:48] LA: Right. Like you're saying, do what feels good for you.
[00:42:51] CR: Yes.
[00:42:52] LA: As opposed to what feels good for everyone else and keeping everyone else comfortable.
[00:42:57] CR: Oh, absolutely. That's bullshit. We need to call bullshit on that. Yeah, for sure. And like I said, even just kind of growing into the person I am now, like, Holly has totally changed me. And how I feel about situations and people, like I’m kind of – Not hardened. I definitely am not hardened. It's almost like I have more grace, if anything else. But it's also like I’m not taking shit from anyone anymore. Like, life is too short.
There's been other scares, like, in my life, where it's just been like an aha moment. Like, "Holy shit! Life is too short to worry about stuff that does not matter." And with Holly, it's like she mattered. And I want to honor her by sharing her story and being there for others. And like I’m sure one day I’ll be working with pregnancy loss, volunteering, whatever that looks like, at some point, because it is so important to be there for other people and to support them. Because it's such an isolating time. And you just feel like an empty void almost. I don't know. For me, that's how I felt. Like, "What do I do now? How do I live without my baby?" Like, “How do I move on? How do we continue to try? How do we mourn? How do we grieve? How do we laugh." Like, it's just so many different things that you have to navigate. And doing it alone is just not okay.
[00:44:23] LA: It sounds like your advice for others going through this is find your people.
[00:44:28] CR: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:44:29] LA: Find your people who are there for you.
[00:44:32] CR: And remember, all the time people, would say, "Oh, we're not telling anyone until 12 weeks." And then with our first loss, I think I was – It's hard to tell. I can't remember. I was between 8 and 11 weeks. They couldn't really tell me. But, holy cow, I'm not telling some of my close friends because I wanted to wait for the 12-week mark, because "that's what you're supposed to do". It's just garbage. You tell your people when you want to, because whether something good happens or something bad happens, you're going to want those people beside you.
And we had this one friend who we told her about our loss and she was there. And she had like a gift basket and this beautiful card and just amazing things. And just like you, like, I still have all the things you got me in that gift basket. I still have that blanket that reminds me of our first baby. And I light a candle for Holly in our first loss. And it's – I don't know. You really see who's there for you and who's in your corner and your people. And it's amazing the people who do show up. Like, you just feel so supported even though you feel at your very worst at least.
[00:45:50] LA: At least you're being held at your very worst.
[00:45:53] CR: Yeah.
[00:45:53] LA: Thank you so much for sharing that.
[00:45:55] CR: Yeah, of course.
[00:45:56] LA: So beautiful. And I think about Holly often. So often. We lit a candle for her tonight.
[00:46:03] CR: Yes, we did.
[00:46:04] LA: Yeah. So we have a little candle burning beside us here to represent her. So she's with us.
[00:46:09] CR: Yeah, she is.
[00:46:12] LA: So, sister, thank you so much for coming and being here and being here with me. Before we hang up the call, I just want to hear from you, what happened in our time today?
[00:46:25] CR: Oh, goodness. Good conversation. Good sharing. More dogs.
[00:46:30] LA: More dogs.
[00:46:30] CR: Absolutely. Told you here.
[00:46:34] LA: Good conversation. Sharing –
[00:46:36] CR: Great conversation. Sharing openness. Yeah, I’ve definitely become more open after Holly. And like I said, just learning that there's so many women who are struggling, so many families. So I think it's very important to be there and –
[00:46:53] LA: Share your story. Share Holly with the world.
[00:46:56] CR: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
[00:46:58] LA: Awesome. Well, I love you so much.
[00:47:00] CR: I love you.
[00:47:01] LA: Thank you so much for being here.
[00:47:03] CR: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I was so nervous. But this was so chill and easy.
[00:47:08] LA: Easy and fun.
[00:47:08] CR: Yeah, easy and fun, as always.
[00:47:09] LA: Yeah, as always.
[00:47:11] CR: Yeah.
[00:47:11] LA: Okay, sister. I love you.
[00:47:13] CR: Love you.
[OUTRO]
[00:47:15] LA: Thank you for being here with me. If you loved this episode of Positively Charged, please rate and review wherever you get your podcast. If you could benefit from illuminating your own personal power, please contact me to get a free coaching consultation. Stay positively charged, my friends.
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